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And personally I don't really care about Disney. It's not like they ever gave me enough to get enjoyment out of life anyways
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ßelial wrote:
Cold hard fact: 9 out of 10 new companies fail and all monies contributed are lost. Fill the gap? Do you have any clue how hard it is to do that? I do.More companies will fill in the gap. It always works this way.
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This system isnt working for the most of us, the boom is over and now were left with a shell of it's former self, global debt is out of control, entire countries economy's are crumbling or gone, that's fact all the arguments for otherwise are irrelevant as we can see from the news on both side of the world defending this system is denial of whats going on. It could be oppressive governments, corporations or dictators the fact is that things are changing, go with it and adapt or ignore and get stuck like those old people who think segregation was a good idea. Me I'm on the front line protesting for the rights of me my children and grandchildren.
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And I'm glad to see, B, that even though you argue that jobs are impossible to find you're not the least bit concerned about the loss of yours should Disney go toes up--hypothetically speaking of course.
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123:456:654 wrote:
I have to agree totally with two things. Global economy is inevitable it's already happened and we have to get our head out of the sand. Also, debt has crippled us. We have to deal with these two things or we are up a particular creek with no means of locomotion. However, spending more money we do not have to give people handouts (essentially) is not going to solve this problem.This system isnt working for the most of us, the boom is over and now were left with a shell of it's former self, global debt is out of control, entire countries economy's are crumbling or gone--edit--It could be oppressive governments, corporations or dictators the fact is that things are changing, go with it and adapt or ignore and get stuck like those old people who think segregation was a good idea. Me I'm on the front line protesting for the rights of me my children and grandchildren.
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Point of this post is people are unhappy. So they have a right to protest and our government has no right to tell any of us we can't change the system. Our Motto for the government has always been by the people and for the people. Not by the people and for the rich.
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ßelial wrote:
If I were you--and this is some pretty solid advice--I'd give a damn about my job no matter what it was.And personally I don't really care about Disney. It's not like they ever gave me enough to get enjoyment out of life anyways
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💋Karma💋 wrote:
Why? As I said. It doesn't give me the necessities to enjoy life. I can't even support a hobby in photography with itßelial wrote:
If I were you--and this is some pretty solid advice--I'd give a damn about my job no matter what it was.And personally I don't really care about Disney. It's not like they ever gave me enough to get enjoyment out of life anyways
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ßelial wrote:
They have a right to protest without infringing on the rights of other Americans. Also, if your issue is with the government, exactly how are you giving them a message by milling about in the middle of the night while they're all tucked neatly in their beds. Go to D.C. Stand with "linked arms" on the steps of the Capitol where they can actually see you. Does anyone have any brains about them? Show up at council meetings. Lobby for something.Point of this post is people are unhappy. So they have a right to protest and our government has no right to tell any of us we can't change the system. Our Motto for the government has always been by the people and for the people. Not by the people and for the rich.
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YOU wrote:
And I don't mean you because I don't think you are actually participating. That's a "royal" you.ßelial wrote:
They have a right to protest without infringing on the rights of other Americans. Also, if your issue is with the government, exactly how are you giving them a message by milling about in the middle of the night while they're all tucked neatly in their beds. Go to D.C. Stand with "linked arms" on the steps of the Capitol where they can actually see you. Does anyone have any brains about them? Show up at council meetings. Lobby for something.Point of this post is people are unhappy. So they have a right to protest and our government has no right to tell any of us we can't change the system. Our Motto for the government has always been by the people and for the people. Not by the people and for the rich.
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ßelial wrote:
And as it stands, we change the system by voting, communicating with our elected officials (generally in writing or in person), or becoming an elected official. No one has ever told anyone they can't do that.Point of this post is people are unhappy. So they have a right to protest and our government has no right to tell any of us we can't change the system. Our Motto for the government has always been by the people and for the people. Not by the people and for the rich.
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💋Karma💋 wrote:
Never works. The government is controlled by the rich. They only do what's right for themselvesßelial wrote:
And as it stands, we change the system by voting, communicating with our elected officials (generally in writing or in person), or becoming an elected official. No one has ever told anyone they can't do that.Point of this post is people are unhappy. So they have a right to protest and our government has no right to tell any of us we can't change the system. Our Motto for the government has always been by the people and for the people. Not by the people and for the rich.
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It's expensive to keep jobs here, but that brings me back to my point.
Do we, should we, as Americans (or anyone in any part of the world, for that matter), value MONEY or PEOPLE? It's more expensive financially and in terms of human cost to NOT invest in this country and keep jobs here. We gotta think long term. We're already suffocating from the effects of greed.
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ßelial wrote:
By that reasoning representative democracy has failed and there is no hope whatsoever for this country--not even by protest unless you intend to take over the government by force. And I do mean by force.💋Karma💋 wrote:
Never works. The government is controlled by the rich. They only do what's right for themselvesßelial wrote:
And as it stands, we change the system by voting, communicating with our elected officials (generally in writing or in person), or becoming an elected official. No one has ever told anyone they can't do that.Point of this post is people are unhappy. So they have a right to protest and our government has no right to tell any of us we can't change the system. Our Motto for the government has always been by the people and for the people. Not by the people and for the rich.
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41Fivin' wrote:
What about freedom? Do you value that? How about less oppressive taxation and reduced government spending? How do YOU make jobs?It's expensive to keep jobs here, but that brings me back to my point.
Do we, should we, as Americans (or anyone in any part of the world, for that matter), value MONEY or PEOPLE? It's more expensive financially and in terms of human cost to NOT invest in this country and keep jobs here. We gotta think long term. We're already suffocating from the effects of greed.
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41Fivin' wrote:
There's a little flaw in your statement. It's more expensive to invest in jobs here. That's fact. Seen that in action. That being said I totally agree that people are to be valued over money. How we get there from here is a discussion that must be had at many levels and in board rooms as well as council rooms, senate houses (state and federal), and representative houses (at all levels). I'm not arguing that it's a problem that we are short on jobs due to the fact that they've been exported. I'm simply arguing that fixing the problem by taking money from corps won't fix anything. It will simply force them to export more jobs to afford their "habit."Do we, should we, as Americans, value MONEY or PEOPLE? It's more expensive financially and in terms of human cost to NOT invest in this country and keep jobs here. We gotta think long term. We're already suffocating from the effects of greed.
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If you tax a corporation or a person excessively, they will simply compensate. A corp will compensate by sending jobs to the lowest bidder and other such actions. A person will compensate by not hiring other workers (housekeeping, bookkeeping, etc.) and lowering their purchasing activity (fewer jobs for people who work where they shop). Persons at higher levels of pay/income are already taxed more. Most pay well over half their wages in income taxes. Add property and sales taxes and it adds up. Would it not be far better to negotiate relocation of jobs to the US and other actions? Protections/preventions from predatory loan processes? Do something meaningful and effective instead of grubbing for $$.
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The standard pay rate is too low karma. Is their another solution?
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And karma. We should start pulling us citizenships and deporting those that outsource jobs. If you want to live here you should be a benefit to this society
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ßelial wrote:
That really pisses me off. Of all the lamest excuses I've ever heard in my entire life, that ranks right up there. You bought a camera. You bought a lens. Not the cheapest camera out threre, either. Because you are too unmotivated to use it, you blame the economy. I really hate to say it, but this seems like a significant percentage of the "movement" is the same bullshit.💋Karma💋 wrote:
Why? As I said. It doesn't give me the necessities to enjoy life. I can't even support a hobby in photography with itßelial wrote:
If I were you--and this is some pretty solid advice--I'd give a damn about my job no matter what it was.And personally I don't really care about Disney. It's not like they ever gave me enough to get enjoyment out of life anyways
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ßelial wrote:
Yes. Now please leave.And karma. We should start pulling us citizenships and deporting those that outsource jobs. If you want to live here you should be a benefit to this society
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ßelial wrote:
Personally, I think there can be a happy medium but it may have to come in the form of some tax breaks or benefits for corps who agree to pay their US employees more--and I mean significantly more but nit necessarily a gargantuan tax break.The standard pay rate is too low karma. Is their another solution?
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Brown🎵Note🇺🇸🐔🔫 wrote:
I am hardly not a benefit to society. I work. I pay taxes and I don't take anything from the governmentßelial wrote:
Yes. Now please leave.And karma. We should start pulling us citizenships and deporting those that outsource jobs. If you want to live here you should be a benefit to this society
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ßelial wrote:
I totally agree with you on this one. I live in Texas. 33% of our minimum wage population (supposedly, don't quote me because the source is widgy) has crawled across the border. Color me unhappy about that.And karma. We should start pulling us citizenships and deporting those that outsource jobs. If you want to live here you should be a benefit to this society
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Brown🎵Note🇺🇸🐔🔫 wrote:
How did I miss this??!? I vote with Brown. Can't support your hobby my lilly white a$$.ßelial wrote:
That really pisses me off. Of all the lamest excuses I've ever heard in my entire life, that ranks right up there. You bought a camera. You bought a lens. Not the cheapest camera out threre, either. Because you are too unmotivated to use it, you blame the economy. I really hate to say it, but this seems like a significant percentage of the "movement" is the same bullshit.💋Karma💋 wrote:
Why? As I said. It doesn't give me the necessities to enjoy life. I can't even support a hobby in photography with itßelial wrote:
If I were you--and this is some pretty solid advice--I'd give a damn about my job no matter what it was. -
No flaw in my statement. I said it's more expensive in HUMAN cost, which I value over MONEY cost.
Yeah, I value freedom. However, are you free from insurance companies, banks, and credit agencies? They've all become near necessities, yet they all have their hands (deep) in our pockets. Do you value freedom from them?
I believe in capitalism, in the right to earn. I believe in upper and lower classes. But I don't believe in a system where one can have more money than one can possibly spend in 10 lifetimes, while some live in tin shacks in Mississippi, or in the projects, or in hoods like where I grew up.
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41Fivin' wrote:
My bad, I misread you. My mistake. However...capitalism only works if the conditions you describe exist. Otherwise it's more like socialism or some version of a system where people with money simply have to give it to someone who didn't earn it. That being said I think a better managed government on a state level could deal with problems that you describe. But honestly, if you were a millionaire and had worked to earn it, how would you feel if I told you you had to give some of it to government projects just because it was decided that you couldn't possibly use it all in a single lifetime?No flaw in my statement. I said it's more expensive in HUMAN cost, which I value over MONEY cost.
Yeah, I value freedom.--edit--
I believe in capitalism, in the right to earn. I believe in upper and lower classes.--edit--
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I had kinda shit jobs as a kid. High school dropout mode.
1. Conveinience store stock boy
2. Bus boy
3. Butcher's Assistant
4. Pizza jockey
5. Fixing lawn equipment
6. Changing tires
7. Changing tires again
8. Warehouse worker
9. Photo lab guy/photographer
-GED-
10. Navy
11. Photo lab guy/photographer
12. Studio photographer
-started my degree on grants and loans... 100% aid. A useful major, note.
13. Electronics technician
14. Unix admin
-degree completed
15. Linux Infrastructure Architect.
-loans paid off.Now you call me rich, and want my money.
This system still works. If we can tackle government debt, reduce regulation, and reduce taxes, the economy will boom.
Nobody that went through all the shit I did is going to turn around and throw it all away because a bunch of college pussies don't like shit jobs.
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Karma, anyone who works a 40 week should have earned the right to be able to afford decent housing, healthy food, and health care. You need your car fixed, right? Your kids need teachers, right? You need a grocer, right? You need your furniture assembled, right? These are all careers that we need, yet some barely earn enough to get by. Their 40 hours are just as important as yours and mine. They, as people, are just as valuable as you and I. So why shouldn't they have access to good housing, healthy food, and health care?
Capitalism can exist just fine. A free market and capitalism are not one and the same. Look at Sweden.
By the way, I respect everyone here's right to their opinion, whether I agree with you or not. Shit would be boring if we all agreed on everything!
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41Fivin' wrote:
I screw with everything you've said. Same thing I was getting at. Sit said betterKarma, anyone who works a 40 week should have earned the right to be able to afford decent housing, healthy food, and health care. You need your car fixed, right? Your kids need teachers, right? You need a grocer, right? You need your furniture assembled, right? These are all careers that we need, yet some barely earn enough to get by. Their 40 hours are just as important as yours and mine. They, as people, are just as valuable as you and I. So why shouldn't they have access to good housing, healthy food, and health care?
Capitalism can exist just fine. A free market and capitalism are not one and the same. Look at Sweden.
By the way, I respect everyone here's right to their opinion, whether I agree with you or not. Shit would be boring if we all agreed on everything!
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