A thread for intellegent debate not trolling (Meaning of life)
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I'd like to apologize before hand for any offense someone may feel or percieved insults or slights. This is meant as a discussion, not an attack.
Recently when Viewing a program on television on the creation of the universe an idea struck me. Since humankinds begginings we've searched for the meaning of life. What if humanities purpose is the reversal of the balance of matter and energy?Right now the trend is that all energy released in the big bang will turn to matter and all energy will disipate. But this process is not irreversible, matter and energy are interchangible (hence atom bombs). Life is the balance of energy and matter, we need it both to survive. Therefore our best interest is balance… your thoughts?
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Life isn't a balance, it's the temporary reversal of entropy in small amounts by the massive increase on entropy elsewhere.
Matter and energy are equivalent. They do change from one to the other regularly. But moving from one to the other also increases overal entropy.
It is however late and I may well not be thinking overly clearly lol -
I get what slugboy says but he didn't say anything about the meaning of life......I think the meaning of life is to just fuck everythin up lol jk the meaning of life.... To enjoy it. Be happy that we're here... Make the best of it so you can be remembered........and be happy you beat those other millions to the egg and didn't wind up in a wad of tissue 😜
be as productive and try our best to keep eachother alive........then wait five years n blow up every little fucking thing n put to use all those hours you practiced your evil laugh and do the laugh as you watch everythin burn to the ground.....then look up to see on of your missels went off course n is heading straight for you 😏 -
There is no "meaning of life". Life just is. Nothing more.
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The initial thread did not have to do with the meaning of life but of a more epic thought of the nature of the universe with focus on the alpha and omega.
The meaning of life is a question of less breadth. Commonly, the limit of the discussion to is the definition of Descartes and his species centric focus on mankind as the sole intelligence in all of creation. However, I would put forth that research the last century within the sciences has shown that life on all sorts of levels has meaning and is relevant to the welfare of our shared planet. Even the smallest of things can be very significant.
Is the meaning of life relative to each individual, species, or creature? Is it only a human issue? Is the meaning of life broad or narrowly defined? Are there many answers or one? The answers are simple.
All these words are meaningless. Wash them from your mind like sand into the sea.
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I just studied a philosopher named Spinoza in school. I know this doesn't really contribute bur his belief was that everything in the universe is God. That we are all pieces in a God puzzle. Now I think this theory is crap but he did raise a point. He said that we all desire to be more like our view of God. So we all search for knowledge to make ourselves perfect. That makes me think, if humans do discover all the secrets that life holds (which is most likely impossible) do we then have the same knowledge as God? I think no, but it is a cool question
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boomroasted wrote:
What about those of us that think god/gods is/are nothing more then a fictitious character/s created by mans over active imagination and inability to explain our physical environment?I just studied a philosopher named Spinoza in school. I know this doesn't really contribute bur his belief was that everything in the universe is God. That we are all pieces in a God puzzle. Now I think this theory is crap but he did raise a point. He said that we all desire to be more like our view of God. So we all search for knowledge to make ourselves perfect. That makes me think, if humans do discover all the secrets that life holds (which is most likely impossible) do we then have the same knowledge as God? I think no, but it is a cool question
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The meaning of life? No idea.
The purpose of life? There is no purpose except for the purpose we choose. Oh and also to follow our instincts like eat, sleep, poop and procreate.
Wait is the meaning and the purpose the same? In my head they are not. But I've also had some wine and only slept 6 hours total in the past 2 nights -
Good point made about my not addressing the meaning of life.
From my pov, the only meaning life has, is the meaning you yourself ascribe to it. -
Reproduction sex yea it's stupid I no I just want to rite it while procrastinating some more
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If anybody here hasn't taken any philosophy classes I highly recommend either buying a book on it or going to see some speakers. It helps with these types of questions
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42.
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boomroasted wrote:
Think for yourself. Read to open your mind. Travel to see difference in cultures.If anybody here hasn't taken any philosophy classes I highly recommend either buying a book on it or going to see some speakers. It helps with these types of questions
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@Boomroasted Baruch was a genius. One of the most important thinkers in the history of the west. Great read. It makes me laugh that you could insult him and add no critique but instead stare at wonder at his idea. Good for you for looking. I suppose your instinct is more accurate than your internalization of the ideas.
Did you read a summary of his ideas or the original works or translations? I hate the watered down synthesis in these ridiculous text books. Hopefully, you read the texts.
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Anyhow, Spinoza focuses on a unique aspect of wonder the moment after Descartes. Looking at the beliefs of those around him sceptically and attempting to use the rhetoric and logic of mathematical reasoning to come to metaphysical distinctions was nothing new and would be done again; however, his synthesis, that you point out, is one of psychological nature and as you rightly gather points towards self actualization. It is action such as this that may proceed towards finding and fulfilling meaning in a persons life so you are within the context of this subject.
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My interest with Spinoza is in his technique and presentation and the phantasms he deals out to us to represent the material situation of our lives. My response to you is why should one chase an abstraction like 'perfection'? Is there such a thing? Is it not absurdity? Do people not make themselves miserable tormenting themselves about so called shortcomings that are simply illusions? Would it not be more productive to hone the tool one has rather than pine for what is not? To your question about 'knowing what god knows' would it not be more productive to wait to ask that after death? In the meantime, it would be more productive to follow Spinoza's example and use our sciences to make better judgement, progress, and secure a better future in life even as we are ridiculous.
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I have an existentialist bent; there is no inherent meaning to existence.
I find purpose by creating my own purpose. I create, therefore, I am.
that imbues my otherwise meaningless existence with my own created purpose.
there can be great freedom and joy found in what many of us might see initially as a quite dark or horrible philosophy as existentialism.
personally, I initially found the idea of a godless universe a horror and extremely sad.
after crossing the chasm, I found it incredibly liberating and beautiful to know how precious each life is.
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Existentialism always struck me as a philosophy for the self-conscious and conceited. Perhaps, as it stayed in France with Sartre for an extended length of Being and Nothingness. 😜
Plus, I always thought it was a knock off of Being and Time by Heidegger.
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@mr. Ikslopot what is the difference between pining for something greater and honing what you've got into something greater? The former is my motivation and the latter my followthrough. And I would suggest that misery occurs when people who hone believe perfection can be reached in this lifetime. I don't think it can be reached because of the obvious limitations in our physical bodies. At the same time, I don't know that pursuing the hard sciences as a species is going to get us closer to perfection. It will probably just reveal more and more of our shortcomings because greed, lust for power and control, and the like will come into play. I think we need to look outside of ourselves as individuals and as a species to holistically improve.
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@mr. Ikslopot what is the difference between pining for something greater and honing what you've got into something greater?
When I said pining I referred to things one cannot change. When I referred to honing it was to shape what can be improved. If one believes in a higher power or not these are issues facing them and bypass the limitations excuse as one 'plays the hand they are dealt.' as for your disbelief in science I suppose you can somehow ignore any advancement in capabilities in history. Must be nice to be in a situation you have benefitted so much from it has become invisible to you. I have been to third world countries with people who would have looked at you with more than a little disdain. 😉 -
This last comment struck me as interesting as though you and I may diverge a bit here in semantics the following statement I would agree with:
At the same time, I don't know that pursuing the hard sciences as a species is going to get us closer to perfection. I think we need to look outside of ourselves as individuals and as a species to holistically improve.
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guitarman wrote:
Indeed.42.
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There is no meaning. It's all chaos. This is coming from an Atheist tho. To each their own.
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I would not attribute this view to that of atheists. Certainly, atheist don't believe in the theist view of a higher power but to imply that they are all anarchists would be a misunderstanding.
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Dr.HaK wrote:
👍guitarman wrote:
Indeed.42.
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You can understand the nature of chaos without being chaotic oneself.
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It's not that I disbelieve in science because it would be foolish to try to ignore it's impact as I sit on my microfiber couch in a multiroom house typing on an iPad while my daughter, who is sitting next to me, had life-saving surgery one day after her birth. I disbelieve in its ability to get us to the end, whatever that looks like. I see no way that hard science can bring an end to poverty, racism, homelessness, etc., all of which will have to happen if our species is to become perfect. I guess we could use science to kill off all of the people in those conditions, but I would argue that would make us less than perfect.
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slugboy wrote:
Sure, I would add that this individual may have a superior understanding as well. I would recommend you read Michel Montaigne's 'By Diverse Paths We Arrive at the same End.'You can understand the nature of chaos without being chaotic oneself.
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bee ryan wrote:
Science will not bring an end to poverty or homelessness as they have nothing to do with science. The idea of money is absurd, and is just a means to control the masses. Think about it, its illegal to fish without buying a permit, its illegal to hunt without a permit, you are born into a nation but have to pay that nation for land to live on. Life comes with a price, its illegal to live for free. And racism, well that is just ignorance. We create our own purpose within the confines of society that have been created by men before us.I see no way that hard science can bring an end to poverty, racism, homelessness, etc., all of which will have to happen if our species is to become perfect. I guess we could use science to kill off all of the people in those conditions, but I would argue that would make us less than perfect.
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Kozy wrote:
We create our own purpose within the confines of society that have been created by men before us.
Everything else you said I agree with; science can only do so much. But the above statement is too fatalist or at least pessimist for me. People can exist and find purpose outside of society's box. I think this is what the Bible is getting at when it talks about being in the world but not of it in John 17, Romans 12 and other similar passages. Positive changes in humanity will come when enough people stop looking to themselves, their possessions, their careers, their abilities and start living others-focused lives, at which point things, careers and abilities can become a means rather than the end
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