A thread for intellegent debate not trolling (Meaning of life)
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bee ryan wrote:
Can you give me an example of finding purpose outside of societies box? I honestly can't think of one.Kozy wrote:
We create our own purpose within the confines of society that have been created by men before us.
People can exist and find purpose outside of society's box.
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Kozy wrote:
+1 Kozybee ryan wrote:
Can you give me an example of finding purpose outside of societies box? I honestly can't think of one.Kozy wrote:
We create our own purpose within the confines of society that have been created by men before us.
People can exist and find purpose outside of society's box.
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Kozy wrote:
Mother Teresa giving everything up and moving to Calcutta? Gandhi's life? Christianity how it was intended, not what it looks like necessarily now, i.e. taking up your cross daily, dying to self, loving your neighbor as yourself, loving God with all your heart, mind and soul? A lot of Christians today are trying to define the box today, I know that, and I pray that they fail. The Bible set the standards for Jews in the OT, and then the NT shows how the law of moses is not the point.bee ryan wrote:
Can you give me an example of finding purpose outside of societies box? I honestly can't think of one.Kozy wrote:
We create our own purpose within the confines of society that have been created by men before us.
People can exist and find purpose outside of society's box.
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bee ryan wrote:
I will respond to the above statements.I disbelieve in its ability to get us to the end, whatever that looks like. I see no way that hard science can bring an end to poverty, racism, homelessness, etc., all of which will have to happen if our species is to become perfect.
I can't change your beliefs. I am glad you have them and would like to imagine they provide you with some security.
Also, perfection is not a ruler to measure progress.
You may not see how science contributes to helping the above situations but others can, have, and do use science to help with the situations you mentioned. Also, sciences exist that help with the psychological turmoil and duress that is a byproduct your situations. I can attest as well that they are much more effective; however, my word is unnecessary as a newspaper reflects that in the science section and in something like a world or local news section.
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Mr. Ikslopot wrote:
Existentialism always struck me as a philosophy for the self-conscious and conceited.
yes darling, it appears you may be all too familiar with recognizing an exaggerated sense of self-importance.
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guitarman wrote:
agreed42.
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bee ryan wrote:
It was societies box that made mother Teresa the person she was, same as Gandhi. Just because they were trying to make change doesn't mean it was outside of societies box. If socity wasn't what it is/was then whos to say they would have been the people they became. Whether we like it or not we become who we are and do the things we do because of societies box.Kozy wrote:
Mother Teresa giving everything up and moving to Calcutta? Gandhi's life?bee ryan wrote:
Can you give me an example of finding purpose outside of societies box? I honestly can't think of one.Kozy wrote:
We create our own purpose within the confines of society that have been created by men before us.
People can exist and find purpose outside of society's box.
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Mother Teresa was beatified by Pope John Paul II. Mahātmā is a word meaning 'great soul'. To say these key individuals in a society were outside of society shows a lack of understanding of the dynamics of a society.
'Christianity how it was intended... A lot of Christians today are trying to define the box...'
It is interesting to see a man judge and accuse himself in the same statement. It leads me to recognize your assumption of an understanding of the roots of Christianity and leave me skeptical of your authority on the matter. I would suggest you speak to someone who has done textural studies or historian.
Also, the box analogy is inaccurate when discussing a society or it's individuals. It was more accurate to describe the solution of nine dots connected by four lines. The solution to the puzzle was adequate for an ad campaign to sell a product. To use the metaphor effectively it might require a more precise locution.
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Docta Procta wrote:
Tabula rasa? Or Zen mind? -
Meaning is either a construct of human kind or of something greater than humans Eg god.
If it is God then we can search for a meaning but will only find it if it is intended. Or if it is a human construct then that meaning is for us to determin. As we have the ability to create abstract notions,We owe it to the rest of the universe to fulfil this part we have been given
Are we human because we look at the stars, or do we look at the stars because we are human?
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I believe completely that we will never fully understand life, science, god ( if there is one), etc... In the last few years we have discovered extinct life on mars, new species in our oceans, may uncover untold "secrets" with the followers being built. Like it or not, we cannot dismiss the chance of there being a "god like" sentient being. Granted these "aliens" probably didn't create the universe, but molding a civilization is completely within the realms of possibility. Explain the pyramids. Personally I believe in science, but new discoveries are made daily, theories are just theories, and tomorrow is not a given. With that said the meaning of life is completely irrelevant, like calling a rose a fart (it still smells the same, looks the same, and can be a pain). Life has no meaning unless you give it meaning.
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Colliders* FU auto correct!
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this thread has a lot of great food for thought though I am still struggling hard to wrap my brain around the fartlike rose.... or is it the roselike fart universe.
(_)_)💨💨💨🌹🌹🌹👃👍
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The Rhino wrote:
Well said.Meaning is either a construct of human kind or of something greater than humans Eg god.
If it is God... We owe it to the rest of the univers ... given
Are we human because we look at the stars, or do we look at the stars because we are human?
If meaning is God given then I suppose it depends what god you are a follower of that will determine your fate or let you find whatever or dictate wether or not you must find your own way. The history of interactions with gods has been an interesting topic itself.
Your other option reveals your good heart in that you feel that the meaning of life should be a positive struggle to help the universe. Very cosmically broad thinking there. Love it!
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The third statement is a circular rhetorical construct. Perhaps, meant as a symbol of infinity which has always struck me as romantic and a lovely thought to entertain and I enjoy the contemplation enough to put aside my fascination with life's fragility.
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saelo2myltlfren wrote:
Agreed, I prefer Shakespeare, "A rose by any other name would smell as sweet" to any fart. 🌹💨😷this thread has a lot of great food for thought though I am still struggling hard to wrap my brain around the fartlike rose.... or is it the roselike fart universe.
(_)_)💨💨💨🌹🌹🌹👃👍
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I think it is funny that 'intelligent' is misspelled for the posting of this thread. Lol.
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I believe there is no meaning or purpose to life. Purpose denotes intelligent creation. Meaning is nothing but the assignment of significance where there is none.
From this perspective, any assignment of meaning or purpose is simply an exaggerated sense of self importance.
I think we exist merely by chance, only because a chemical chain began to unwind and separate, and then attract new parts that fit the pattern left behind, creating an almost perfect copy in the process. Not much more significant than crystal lattices stacking perfectly all by themselves.
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Brown Note 😻🌺🌈 wrote:
Nice. Would you consider yourself a nihilist or materialist?I believe there is no meaning or purpose to life. Purpose denotes intelligent creation. Meaning is nothing but the assignment of significance where there is none.
From this perspective, any assignment of meaning or purpose is simply an exaggerated sense of self importance.
I think we exist merely by chance, only because a chemical chain began to unwind and separate, and then attract new parts that fit the pattern left behind, creating an almost perfect copy in the process. Not much more significant than crystal lattices stacking perfectly all by themselves.
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Science helps improve quality of life, I get that and agree with that. We need people working in those fields to push the limits and understand how and what to manipulate to make the world better for more people. I'm not arguing the usefulness of science; I'm trying to say that if we get to the point that we have pushed the sciences as far as they can go, more progress as a species will still be possible. Science is a means to help us become better, or worse for that matter, but not the end.
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What assumption(s) do you think I'm making about the origins of Christianity? and yes, I do judge myself because I try to be humble. I know a lot, but as a future teacher, I am a lifelong learner, and thus strive to hone my thoughts and actions while acknowledging my misthoughts and nonactions, so to speak.
Society did not make those people do the things they did. It is their differences from the vast majority for which we remember them. They obviously can't change anything living outside the box or the nine dot puzzle, but they valued something different from the typical person, and that motivated them to do what they did. They could have connected all nine dots with an asterisk type drawing of four lines, but they, as others can, connected them with four lines that intersect only once.
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bee ryan wrote:
Just because they stood out from the vast majority does not mean that society didn't shape them. They became the people they did because of societies need for people like them. Just like Rosa Parks, she stood out for the greater good and it is because of society that she became the person she was. If we lived in utopia then these people may never have even been noticed.Society did not make those people do the things they did. It is their differences from the vast majority for which we remember them.
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Brown Note 😻🌺🌈 wrote:
I believe there is no meaning or purpose to life. Purpose denotes intelligent creation. Meaning is nothing but the assignment of significance where there is none.
From this perspective, any assignment of meaning or purpose is simply an exaggerated sense of self importance.
I think we exist merely by chance, only because a chemical chain began to unwind and separate, and then attract new parts that fit the pattern left behind, creating an almost perfect copy in the process. Not much more significant than crystal lattices stacking perfectly all by themselves.
I would argue this view as being a little "emo"
One could say our existence is just as significant as crystal formation. Self importance is as abstract an idea as meaning
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Kozy wrote:
bee ryan wrote:
Just because they stood out from the vast majority does not mean that society didn't shape them. They became the people they did because of societies need for people like them. Just like Rosa Parks, she stood out for the greater good and it is because of society that she became the person she was. If we lived in utopia then these people may never have even been noticed.Society did not make those people do the things they did. It is their differences from the vast majority for which we remember them.
Without evil good becomes neutral
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Rhino that made me think of this.
Your joy is your sorrow unmasked.
And the selfsame well from which your laughter rises was oftentimes filled with your tears.
And how else can it be?
The deeper that sorrow carves into your being, the more joy you can contain.
Is not the cup that hold your wine the very cup that was burned in the potter's oven?
And is not the lute that soothes your spirit, the very wood that was hollowed with knives? -
When you are joyous, look deep into your heart and you shall find it is only that which has given you sorrow that is giving you joy.
When you are sorrowful look again in your heart, and you shall see that in truth you are weeping for that which has been your delight.
Some of you say, "Joy is greater than sorrow," and others say, "Nay, sorrow is the greater."
But I say unto you, they are inseparable.
Together they come, and when one sits alone with you at your board, remember that the other is asleep upon your bed.
Verily you are suspended like scales between your sorrow and your joy.
Only when you are empty are you at standstill and balanced.-Kahlil Gibran
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@ Bee Ryan I did not mean to exasperate you. I read a great deal of philosophy. Your most recent statement is the most articulate thought you have presented thus far. There is more of you in this and less of the flowery cliché. Stay like this incarnation. It is a good way for you.
As for your fishing for my incite into your assumptions I would appreciate if you analyzed your own words for their content. It is all very clear. I am simply reading and thinking about what is being said. Nothing more than appreciating the various ideas presented here and trying to entice and nurture original incites from the writer. I edit poets in my free time every other week.
@ Kozu I read a lot of poetry but have never been into Gibran. He is the most popular poet in the U.S. but that is probably a bad sign in my experience.
@ Ryan My puzzle critique has become belabored.
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I read the prophet about 6-7 years ago and have not read anything else by gibran. The reason that came to mind was because rhino said, "without good evil becomes neutral." In the line, "The deeper that sorrow carves into your being, the more joy you can contain" Gibran was in a way saying the same thing, without sorrow, joy becomes neutral. Or at least that is how I interpreted it when I originally read it.
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Good cannot exist without evil it's true, so one would argue that evil is essential and accept or even celebrate it. However the nature of evil demands for it to be abhored, if we do not it is our perception of morality that is wrong, as the acceptance of evil can only be viewed in such a way from an outside perspective.
We are a part of the machine.
Cogs turn in different directions, without them there is no clock, but time told is always clockwise.Just a thought
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"I believe there is no meaning or purpose to life. Purpose denotes intelligent creation. Meaning is nothing but the assignment of significance where there is none."
Well, the epistemology that came out of this was interesting. To say purpose derives or is evidence of god is arbitrary. It seams to me you could insert anything at the end of that sentence and it would have similar impact. If one looks at evolution as a process it does become apparent that successful mutations indeed do have significant meaning. In fact, the survival of the species may indeed rely on the subtle accident.
I have to catch some Z's. Insomnia. 😒
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