I miss 👿Belial
Forums › General Discussion › I miss 👿Belial-
SHΛͫNͣKͩΞЯ wrote:
Ahhh but my question is do those who choose a relationship with god but have abused / neglected people and hence not lived up to "the" standard, get in?Guys I never post on here other than a congrats but to say that God eternally damns anyone is incorrect. I use to battle with this thought myself. ✂ If he made you stay in Heaven and forced a relationship with Him upon you then that would be Hell, hence no need for either to exist nor any blood ever to have been shed as a sacrifice. Forced love is not love, it is always a choice. And I don't argue or begrudge anyone's choice but respect it regardless of the consequences of it.
Reading the bible it appears that either everyone who believes irrespective of their behaviours get in or none of you do, as no one can live up to the standard....
As such if everyone gets in I would rather not as there are a lot of nasty evil people who would be in there...
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Those who have truly repented and followed the plan of salvation get into heaven. Case in point, the thieves on the cross with Jesus when he was crucified. Go read what said between them, one was saved and the other not. That example should shed some light on your question.
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I'll be dropping out of the convo for the next day or so, I'll catch up when I get back. PM me if you need a specific answer.
Muchas Gracias
Lewolfe -
LeWolfe wrote:
And you say god knows when someone has truly repented. I think hell must be pretty full of priests then....Those who have truly repented and followed the plan of salvation get into heaven. Case in point, the thieves on the cross with Jesus when he was crucified. Go read what said between them, one was saved and the other not. That example should shed some light on your question.
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Damn, just reading this and realised got off track. What I was wanting to understand was why you believed there is a god and why you think he is good?
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If one has truly repented then he will not pursue things that he once did. Not saying that you will never sin again because you will ( you are a fallen creature living in a fallen world) but you will not be able to do it without it eating at your very being. If you can continue sin in a cavalier manner with no remorse (pedophile priests) then you have not truly been saved. I can not sit here and say who is in hell or who is going because I don't know their heart at the their time of death. Not my job nor my place to judge on that one.
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SHΛͫNͣKͩΞЯ wrote:
Cheers Shanker.If one has truly repented then he will not pursue things that he once did. Not saying that you will never sin again because you will ( you are a fallen creature living in a fallen world) but you will not be able to do it without it eating at your very being. If you can continue sin in a cavalier manner with no remorse (pedophile priests) then you have not truly been saved. I can not sit here and say who is in hell or who is going because I don't know their heart at the their time of death. Not my job nor my place to judge on that one.
Any chance you'll have a go at explaining your belief in God or why you think he is good?
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Hyena wrote:
Matters of faith like the existence of god don't have physical proof that will settle your question, especially on the forum of an iPhone game. Instead of debating with children why don't you go visit a church or talk to a minister or a theologian?Damn, just reading this and realised got off track. What I was wanting to understand was why you believed there is a god and why you think he is good?
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Has anyone sent an ss of this to Belial on pal?
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B was PermaBanned? Oi vey!
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Why is the moment of our death so important in the heaven/hell ruling for an individual? What if a person would have truly repented if only he lived another 5 minutes? Isn't our immortal soul participating in our sin? What does physical death mean to a soul? It seems so arbitrary.
Surely an all knowing god would know if someone was deserving of perpetual orgasmic bliss or permanent burning torment regardless of their attitude precisely when they hit the lamp pole at 110 mph.
What if a person lived 109 years as a perfect godly disciple, then right before death decided good and evil is a fairy tale and decided god doesn't exist. Does he or she deserve perpetual anal ripping in hell?
This god makes very strange rules.
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Johnny Cage wrote:
Well that is the debate, is it belief or knowledge in a god? If belief why do they choose to believe? If knowledge, then where is their evidence?Hyena wrote:
Matters of faith like the existence of god don't have physical proof that will settle your question, especially on the forum of an iPhone game. Instead of debating with children why don't you go visit a church or talk to a minister or a theologian?Damn, just reading this and realised got off track. What I was wanting to understand was why you believed there is a god and why you think he is good?
I'm more interested in a layman a view than a theologians, much like I am a layman atheist. I'm looking to also be challenged and see what we come up with.
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Hyena wrote:
It's much easier to debate a 12yo 'layman' on an iPhone app I guess.... More power to ya bro ✊Johnny Cage wrote:
Well that is the debate, is it belief or knowledge in a god? If belief why do they choose to believe? If knowledge, then where is their evidence?Hyena wrote:
Matters of faith like the existence of god don't have physical proof that will settle your question, especially on the forum of an iPhone game. Instead of debating with children why don't you go visit a church or talk to a minister or a theologian?Damn, just reading this and realised got off track. What I was wanting to understand was why you believed there is a god and why you think he is good?
I'm more interested in a layman a view than a theologians, much like I am a layman atheist. I'm looking to also be challenged and see what we come up with.
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Johnny Cage wrote:
I don't think most people on here are 12...Hyena wrote:
It's much easier to debate a 12yo 'layman' on an iPhone app I guess.... More power to ya bro ✊Johnny Cage wrote:
Well that is the debate, is it belief or knowledge in a god? If belief why do they choose to believe? If knowledge, then where is their evidence?Hyena wrote: ✂
Matters of faith like the existence of god don't have physical proof that will settle your question, especially on the forum of an iPhone game. Instead of debating with children why don't you go visit a church or talk to a minister or a theologian?I'm more interested in a layman a view than a theologians, much like I am a layman atheist. I'm looking to also be challenged and see what we come up with.
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Debating professional liars isn't as fun as debating honest people who are just misinformed.
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Brown🎵Note😲 wrote:
But atheists aren't that misinformed, just misdirected 😉.......oh wait, excuse me, you were talking about us Christians 😱oh yes, poor, mis-informed little 12 year old no degree me lolDebating professional liars isn't as fun as debating honest people who are just misinformed.
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This should explain why "good" people don't always go to heaven and why "bad" people sometimes do
(30 What shall we say, then? That Gentiles who did not pursue righteousness have attained it, that is, a righteousness that is by faith;
31 but that Israel who pursued a law that would lead to righteousness did not succeed in reaching that law.
32 Why? Because they did not pursue it by faith, but as if it were based on works. They have stumbled over the stumbling stone,) -
joshg797 wrote:
Can you please give the reference?This should explain why "good" people don't always go to heaven and why "bad" people sometimes do
(30 What shall we say, then? That Gentiles who did not pursue righteousness have attained it, that is, a righteousness that is by faith;
31 but that Israel who pursued a law that would lead to righteousness did not succeed in reaching that law.
32 Why? Because they did not pursue it by faith, but as if it were based on works. They have stumbled over the stumbling stone,) -
LeWolfe wrote:
Romans 9:30-32joshg797 wrote:
Can you please give the reference?This should explain why "good" people don't always go to heaven and why "bad" people sometimes do
(30 What shall we say, then? That Gentiles who did not pursue righteousness have attained it, that is, a righteousness that is by faith;
31 but that Israel who pursued a law that would lead to righteousness did not succeed in reaching that law.
32 Why? Because they did not pursue it by faith, but as if it were based on works. They have stumbled over the stumbling stone,) -
joshg797 wrote:
I disagree on the context tentatively with you, but I relegate that to a doctrine debate, which this thread isn't :) so I'll let it stand without debate from my behalf.LeWolfe wrote:
Romans 9:30-32joshg797 wrote:
Can you please give the reference?This should explain why "good" people don't always go to heaven and why "bad" people sometimes do
(30 What shall we say, then? That Gentiles who did not pursue righteousness have attained it, that is, a righteousness that is by faith;
31 but that Israel who pursued a law that would lead to righteousness did not succeed in reaching that law.
32 Why? Because they did not pursue it by faith, but as if it were based on works. They have stumbled over the stumbling stone,) -
Hyena wrote:
Wow it's almost like you're Belial reincarnated.Damn, just reading this and realised got off track. What I was wanting to understand was why you believed there is a god and why you think he is good?
And that's not a compliment. -
LeWolfe wrote:
Lol, snap.... Nice comeback.Brown🎵Note😲 wrote:
But atheists aren't that misinformed, just misdirected 😉.......oh wait, excuse me, you were talking about us Christians 😱oh yes, poor, mis-informed little 12 year old no degree me lolDebating professional liars isn't as fun as debating honest people who are just misinformed.
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joshg797 wrote:
I don't have a bible handy, but is my understanding of what you are saying is;This should explain why "good" people don't always go to heaven and why "bad" people sometimes do
(30 What shall we say, then? That Gentiles who did not pursue righteousness have attained it, that is, a righteousness that is by faith;
31 but that Israel who pursued a law that would lead to righteousness did not succeed in reaching that law.
32 Why? Because they did not pursue it by faith, but as if it were based on works. They have stumbled over the stumbling stone,)1) those without faith don't get to heaven, even those who profess to believe but only show it through actions.
Is this simplified for you too;
2) those with faith get to heaven, those without don't?
Sort of proving some of my earlier posts as to why I wouldn't want to go there...
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See, that's why I tentatively disagree with him on his point(as much as I'd rather leave this portion to a doctrine debate) could you explain your point a little better josh? I'm afraid I'm confused as to your exact contextual translation of those scriptures
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I was looking for something on defending your religion but found this which I thought was interesting:
(2) The Premise (v. 1b). The reason why such a command can be given is found in the second part of verse 1: “For there is no authority except from God and those which exist are established by God” (Romans 13:1b). God is the source of all authority. The government authorities, then, exist by the authority granted them by the supreme authority, God Himself.
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Now I want you to observe this verse closely, for it reveals to us what the basis is on which a government should be acknowledged and obeyed. It is not by virtue of its characteristics, whether it be democratic, autocratic or whatever. A government is not legitimate and duly constituted because its form precisely meets our preferences. A government is to be acknowledged and obeyed by virtue of its existence. “… those (governments) which exist are established by God.
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This means that the government of Red China is ordained by God. It means that the government in Russia is established by the authority vested to it by God. This even means that the Nazi regime in Germany was there by the will (decretive) of God.
I want it to be very clear that there are no loopholes in this first verse. Every soul is to be in subjection to human government; any and every government, by virtue of its existence is, de facto, the government to which we must submit.
https://bible.org/seriespage/christian-obligations-romans-13
Now I'm getting confused, you must live a good and Christian life and obey your government? How does that work with the American War of Independence???
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LeWolfe wrote:
I was using those verses to counter what brown note posted and I think they fit very well in the contextSee, that's why I tentatively disagree with him on his point(as much as I'd rather leave this portion to a doctrine debate) could you explain your point a little better josh? I'm afraid I'm confused as to your exact contextual translation of those scriptures
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joshg797 wrote:
Whilst I see your post as explaining why your God does what he does, it doesn't counter BrownNotes comment on whether a person is deserving of Hell, or that there are some strange rules he has made...LeWolfe wrote:
I was using those verses to counter what brown note posted and I think they fit very well in the contextSee, that's why I tentatively disagree with him on his point(as much as I'd rather leave this portion to a doctrine debate) could you explain your point a little better josh? I'm afraid I'm confused as to your exact contextual translation of those scriptures
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Hyena wrote:
No, there's an answer to that one, I don't remember it though, let me ask my Bible school grad friend from my church. There's an answer I know because I've asked the same question, I just don't remember. I'll get back to youThis means that the government of Red China is ordained by God. It means that the government in Russia is established by the authority vested to it by God. This even means that the Nazi regime in Germany was there by the will (decretive) of God.
I want it to be very clear that there are no loopholes in this first verse. Every soul is to be in subjection to human government; any and every government, by virtue of its existence is, de facto, the government to which we must submit.
https://bible.org/seriespage/christian-obligations-romans-13
Now I'm getting confused, you must live a good and Christian life and obey your government? How does that work with the American War of Independence???
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