Apparently we can't criticize the government.
Forums › General Discussion › Apparently we can't criticize the government.-
O U 8 1 2 wrote:
Keyser is staring down the ass end of 30 years of a government that stopped investing in it's own people, rather relying on fantasy like the free market and personal responsibility to create a more perfect world. We've let corporations pump us full of poisons and drugs with abandon while cutting education and letting health care and pharma become vast perverted profit centers. We neglect our own people like that and then have the nerve to act surprised when some of them make poor health choices. These people are the living, breathing EXTERNALIZED costs of our own complacency and corporate greed. They made their choices, I agree. No excuses. They are still however innocent people with loved ones and they do not deserve to die in the street when we have the means to, at the very least, make them comfortable on their way our of this world. Greatest country in the world and all, right?...never ✂ always...
-
😡ҝعყʂعཞ😈Տöƶع😡 wrote:
I never took your comments to extremes. You did that all by yourself. And it was definitely not the standard "I want to kill my boss" hyperbole. You obviously want these people dead from lack of treatment, you've stood behind that sentiment quite firmly.YOU wrote:
And you don't give a shit if someone wants someone to die. Just not in a hospital. Should I take your comments to extremes as well? I thought that caring "shit" applied everywhere?★fnord★ wrote:
So you don't actually believe in a job well done. Just Keyser's. The other Keyser's.@😡ҝعყʂعཞ😈Տȫƶع😡
If you were a tollbooth operator and you said you wished those cheap losers wasting your time digging for change would just die so you could give more attention to the good ones, I could give a shit less. It'd be a little weird, but whatever. ✂ -
It's like the subject keeps changing. It started off as a society discussion about taxes. Not the choices you make for each individual. Safety nets are society wide. Getting rid of it to stop the small number abusing it hurts all the other people including the middle class and upper class to be frank. The idea that you guys don't understand the value of society working together when you live in it, astounds me. You all think you busted your ass and got to where you are on your own. That's hogwash at its finest. You got to where you are in huge part because of the infrastructure and opportunity we have built. If you lived in some third world nation it would be much more likely that you'd still be busting your ass, but probably as more like a slave worker picking tobacco or digging for diamonds 18 hours a day. Our society is the hand that lifts us up, though it's up to the able to finish the task.
-
History is at your feet. Look at it thoroughly. The way you like it to be is in there and it's certainly not pretty. Filled with disease, death, uneducated income disparity. Human beings should be learning from history, not snubbing there nose at it thinking the human race has changed and things will just fall in place for the good. Talk about idealistic. Bah.
Ou, our "problem" is empathy for the human condition. Our founding fathers and all our great leaders through time had this "problem" too. It's why you have what you do today.
-
Okay too many Keysers I'm fucking confused, can you guys practise survival of the fittest and narrow down only the strongest keyser please, as per keysers request of course😝. I see where you are coming from Keyser but apparently you can't see past your extreme bias. Survival of the fittest is a natural law that holds no bearing in sociatal law. Move to Alberta, Canada! Our government is so good that they barely even tax you there, fuck Canada owns.
-
★MΛΥΗΞΜ★ wrote:
Survival of the fittest is not just natural law, it's one of the founding principles of free market capitalism. Fixate on this magic market long enough and suddenly human beings become a commodity and subject to the rules of capitalism as well. I believe that's what's going on here. Strange times we live in.Okay too many Keysers I'm fucking confused, can you guys practise survival of the fittest and narrow down only the strongest keyser please, as per keysers request of course😝. I see where you are coming from Keyser but apparently you can't see past your extreme bias. Survival of the fittest is a natural law that holds no bearing in sociatal law. Move to Alberta, Canada! Our government is so good that they barely even tax you there, fuck Canada owns.
-
@fnord,
ask not what your country can do for you, ask what you can do for your country.
Why should the government have to tell someone to take care of themselves? I think people should take more personal responsibility. If you saw people being refused care for illness due to noncompliance, would you not follow the instructions to a T? I'm inclined to believe that drastic a measure MIGHT cause a FEW people to change.Oh and my patient called dibs on your right kidney. Said it will go well with the left one he had.
-
@Keyser
Your repeated requests to harvest my organs is a red herring and a false dilemma. I know how organ donor lists work. If what you say is true and he destroyed his donor kidney through gross negligence then no, my kidney should go to someone more deserving. Correct me if I'm wrong, but you would like to withdraw ALL medical care from this person, correct? As a medical professional, I'm assuming you can see the distinction between reasonable rationing of a limited resource and outright denial of basic life-prolonging services. -
★Λddi★ wrote:
Thats the problem, i didnt state a position. Obama phone was a joke from a video i seen on youtube.. Also do you think i go to "tea parties"? Your right about making assumptions 😘₳ʉ₲ʉṣϮḭ₦ê (₳ⓑ€) wrote:
★Λddi★ wrote:
Ok you cant call anyone out on a position if you first dont know what their position is. Creating fallacies in the realm where you dont need to? Why are you so hostel₳ʉ₲ʉṣϮḭ₦ê (₳ⓑ€) wrote:
★Λddi★ wrote:
...
How about this, since you brought it up and I apparently misinterpreted your position on it based on my 1.5-2 yrs of debate with you on the forums (kind of get a feel of people's positions after time)...why not give your actual opinion on the matter. :)
-
★fnord★ wrote:
You havent read up on marxism have you?★MΛΥΗΞΜ★ wrote:
Survival of the fittest is not just natural law, it's one of the founding principles of free market capitalism. Fixate on this magic market long enough and suddenly human beings become a commodity and subject to the rules of capitalism as well. I believe that's what's going on here. Strange times we live in.Okay too many Keysers I'm fucking confused, can you guys practise survival of the fittest and narrow down only the strongest keyser please, as per keysers request of course😝. I see where you are coming from Keyser but apparently you can't see past your extreme bias. Survival of the fittest is a natural law that holds no bearing in sociatal law. Move to Alberta, Canada! Our government is so good that they barely even tax you there, fuck Canada owns.
-
@fnord, if you had to pick between two people you didn't know who would get a life saving drug using only the medical record, how would you do it?
-
😡ҝعყʂعཞ😈Տȫƶع😡 wrote:
I'd pick the patient that had a better chance at a long and quality life. Then I would make the other patient as comfortable as I could, not roll them out by the dumpsters in a wheelbarrow.@fnord, if you had to pick between two people you didn't know who would get a life saving drug using only the medical record, how would you do it?
-
₳ʉ₲ʉṣϮḭ₦ê (₳ⓑ€) wrote:
Marx predicted the end game of capitalism to a tee, we're living it. You're a devout Christian, right? A follower of Christ? "What you do to the least among you, you do to me." Which one is it? Is all human life precious and sacred, or is it a commodity to be bought, sold and discarded when it's usefulness to society has run it's course. Keyser described his solution earlier as assisted suicide. That's all good with you?★fnord★ wrote:
You havent read up on marxism have you?★MΛΥΗΞΜ★ wrote: ✂
Survival of the fittest is not just natural law, it's one of the founding principles of free market capitalism. Fixate on this magic market long enough and suddenly human beings become a commodity and subject to the rules of capitalism as well. I believe that's what's going on here. Strange times we live in. -
★fnord★ wrote:
Who said anything about a wheelbarrow or dumpster?😡ҝعყʂعཞ😈Տȫƶع😡 wrote:
I'd pick the patient that had a better chance at a long and quality life. Then I would make the other patient as comfortable as I could, not roll them out by the dumpsters in a wheelbarrow.@fnord, if you had to pick between two people you didn't know who would get a life saving drug using only the medical record, how would you do it?
-
😡ҝعყʂعཞ😈Տȫƶع😡 wrote:
My bad, I thought we were still talking about non-compliant patients. I suppose if it's just a regular sick person, you may in you infinite wisdom allow them to live.★fnord★ wrote:
Who said anything about a wheelbarrow or dumpster?😡ҝعყʂعཞ😈Տȫƶع😡 wrote:
I'd pick the patient that had a better chance at a long and quality life. Then I would make the other patient as comfortable as I could, not roll them out by the dumpsters in a wheelbarrow.@fnord, if you had to pick between two people you didn't know who would get a life saving drug using only the medical record, how would you do it?
-
😡ҝعყʂعཞ😈Տȫƶع😡 wrote:
This is like giving a habitual smoker a lung transplant,or giving a drunk a liver transplant.How do y'all like this one? Dialysis patient refused blood at dialysis because he "had somewhere to go". Same evening he had to go to the ER because he was weak. Surprise, he needed blood. H&H of 5 & 17. Blood at dialysis would have prevented his admission. While being admitted, his meds were checked at the pharmacy he uses. Lortab 10 was filled Jan 17, 2013. All his 5 BP meds and his Coumadin were filled in September 2012. Oh and he had a kidney transplant in 2005 that failed due to noncompliance. So he has taken an organ from someone else and is currently taking a bed that easily could have been avoided. Fnord, wanna donate him one of your kidneys? He might change!!!!
-
My post was up all day then deleted when i thought I had been replying to some wrong Keyzer.
I'm in the tech industry.
-
Is there a difference between taking care of those in need and preventing others from taking advantage of a broken system? Who is really doing the damage? Those that cheat the system, thereby hurting those that need it? Or those that choose to reform the system for those who actually need it?
-
★fnord★ wrote:
I'm not him. Genius. And I only mentioned that your altruism seems a LOT selective.😡ҝعყʂعཞ😈Տöƶع😡 wrote:
I never took your comments to extremes. You did that all by yourself.YOU wrote:
And you don't give a shit if someone wants someone to die. Just not in a hospital. Should I take your comments to extremes as well? I thought that caring "shit" applied everywhere?★fnord★ wrote:
So you don't actually believe in a job well done. Just Keyser's. The other Keyser's.@😡ҝعყʂعཞ😈Տȫƶع😡
If you were a tollbooth operator and you said you wished those cheap losers wasting your time digging for change would just die so you could give more attention to the good ones, I could give a shit less. It'd be a little weird, but whatever. ✂ -
@fnord
You should actually "give a shit" about people in all situations and in any walk of life. Yes, when it comes down to allocating resources, you have to make difficult decisions. I've had to wait in ER's with chronically ill children who have received to-the-letter care and watched parents dump their kids in the ER and walk away. Granted, kids are different. But still, the kid with the flu or the kid bleeding out the ass? So we slept three to a gurney until we could get a real bed in a real room. But hospitals aside, you should be just as concerned about people in any service position which includes any job anywhere, IMO. People think it doesn't matter if their job is a repair man or a sales job...but if you're really going to ride on that particular high horse, it matters everywhere. Otherwise your deep, meaningful concern for Keyser the 1st's job well done (which it is if you know him) isn't worth a crap.
-
Wait, which Keyser are you again?
Actually never mind, I don't care. Let me know when the Keyser circle jerk is over. Until then you have my deepest yawn.
-
"Whatever you do may seem insignificant but it is most important that you do it." - M. Gandhi
-
★fnord★ wrote:
I'm the one poking holes in your feigned altruism. You either care for ppl or you don't. It shouldn't matter your occupation. And do you really think Keyser (the 1st 😂) doesn't do his job well? How could you possible know without walking in his shoes? You should start caring for ppl digging for change at the toll booth first. Believe me, some of them are driving their kid to the hospital for the umpteenth time and REALLY having a bad day. True story.Wait, which Keyser are you again?
Actually never mind, I don't care. Let me know when the Keyser circle jerk is over. Until then you have my deepest yawn.
-
Boner Jams '03 wrote:
This."Whatever you do may seem insignificant but it is most important that you do it." - M. Gandhi
-
Oh Jesus, nothing like trying to cover up your original statement with a twisted straw man argument aka presenting a misrepresentation of the opponent's position. You know damn well what he was saying. And it wasn't that people shouldn't care.
Let me break it down for you.
A. Keyser is an RN that wants to make the final decision on wether or not any one person is worthy of care based on these people being dumbasses.
B. fnord says it wouldn't matter as much what you think about people receiving health care if you were say a toll booth attendant. Why you ask? Because the toll booth attendant doesn't have his hand in those people's lives. He simply has an opinion. A bad opinion but just an opinion that doesn't directly affect a noncompliant's care.A. Is a real life scerio.
B. Is an imaginary scenario not fnord's feelings on people's worth or care.Genius.
-
👆And that's directed at the unoriginal keyser, incase you've confused yourself with yourself.
-
"If you were a tollbooth operator and you said you wished those cheap losers wasting your time digging for change would just die so you could give more attention to the good ones, I could give a shit less. It'd be a little weird, but whatever."
That's what fnord actually said. So if Keyser the 1st was a tollbooth operator this whole discussion would never have exploded. I find that pretty out of character for someone who has rallied himself behind the greater good of society for the last five pages. That's all.
-
@Addi. I could care less who makes the decision but a medical board similar to the organ transplant would probably work best. Thanks. Good morning all
-
And if you don't think that ppl in all sorts of jobs actually matter sometimes--in the greater scheme of health care even--you should really take your blinders off and talk to ppl who are chronic patients in spite of good health care and compliance because I can't count the number of tollbooth operators, building superintendents, maids, car repairmen, baristas, etc. who got me through years of stuff with my kids just by going above and beyond what they were ever required to do. So yes, they all matter and I would hope aren't blowing ppl off or acting flippantly because, you know, their job isn't like a nurse or anything "important."
-
Right. I know what he said.
And you're right it wouldn't have exploded because Keyser would have just been some tollbooth dude with a 2013 conservative opinion about health care. Join the club. Kind of like Machmeck did. There's the two alternating debates right in this thread. Read back to see the difference in the two debates that were going on together. One controls these noncompliants care, one does not. And there lies the difference with one real character and one fictional character (toll booth guy). That of which you can not compare the two with any validity.
![[][]](https://turfwarsapp.com/img/app/ajax-forbutton.gif)
Purchase Respect Points NEW! · Support · Turf Map · Terms · Privacy
©2021 MeanFreePath LLC