National day of discussion: the gun issue in America
Forums › General Discussion › National day of discussion: the gun issue in America-
I have a friend of a friend that posed a very interesting challenge, and that is to make a point of talking about the gun issue in the US. Not just gun control, but all aspects of the topic.
Check out the Facebook event page and spread the word, regardless of which side you are on.
https://www.facebook.com/events/572086512805699/
I'll open the debate on the 21st, that is if someone doesn't beat me to it.
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First thing that comes to mind for a pro...
If I'm not mistaken, I believe I heard that at least a third of the population of the United States are armed with one or more firearms.
Which leads to my next thought... That's anywhere from 120millon-200million firearms. That's probably low a low estimate.
Now imagine the mainland US was being invaded by ground forces.
Suddenly a third or more of America's civilians now become a possible insurgents or minutemen.
A militia of hundreds of millions just like that. No army on earth comes close.
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Take all the guns out of America is insane. You would create a new market for the cartel.
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GreenPhoeni/x/ wrote:
👏👏👏👏👏First thing that comes to mind for a pro...
If I'm not mistaken, I believe I heard that at least a third of the population of the United States are armed with one or more firearms.
Which leads to my next thought... That's anywhere from 120millon-200million firearms. That's probably low a low estimate.
Now imagine the mainland US was being invaded by ground forces.
Suddenly a third or more of America's civilians now become a possible insurgents or minutemen.
A militia of hundreds of millions just like that. No army on earth comes close.
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There is no gun issue... Criminals do not abide by gun laws... Any further gun laws will only prohibit law abiding citizens from having guns.
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☣FƲϦᎯર☣ wrote:
Well said 👍There is no gun issue... Criminals do not abide by gun laws... Any further gun laws will only prohibit law abiding citizens from having guns.
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Anyone want to read something funny that shows how futile this argument actually is...?
http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-500202_162-57337289/legal-u.s-gun-sales-to-mexico-arming-cartels/ -
Selling weapons to Mexico - where cartel violence is out of control - is controversial because so many guns fall into the wrong hands due to incompetence and corruption. The Mexican military recently reported nearly 9,000 police weapons "missing."
Yet the U.S. has approved the sale of more guns to Mexico in recent years than ever before through a program called "direct commercial sales." It's a program that some say is worse than the highly-criticized "Fast and Furious" gunrunning scandal, where U.S. agents allowed thousands of weapons to pass from the U.S. to Mexican drug cartels.
CBS News investigative correspondent Sharyl Attkisson discovered that the official tracking all those guns sold through "direct commercial sales" leaves something to be desired.
One weapon an AR-15 type semi automatic rifle, tells the story. In 2006, this same kind of rifle - tracked by serial number - is legally sold by a U.S. manufacturer to the Mexican military. -
☣FƲϦᎯર☣ wrote:
It's already illegal to carry a gun onto a campus. Gun laws don't work here because of the millions already in circulation. How hard is it to buy heroin or crack? The black market would supply anyone who wanted to do evil. If someone wants to do harm, they will. They are criminals, & by definition, don't care about laws. Assault & murder are illegal too, so I just don't see how more restrictions would affect anyone but law abiding citizens.There is no gun issue... Criminals do not abide by gun laws... Any further gun laws will only prohibit law abiding citizens from having guns.
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Green. We know this debate is coming. The liberal media is going to make an issue of it in support of the White House. I believe Ur statistics are wrong tho. The liberal media has it at 300 million guns and continue to report some 20-30 ( idk a hundred) people die daily in American to guns but fail to tell that it's 'Criminals doing the deeds' where as if those law abiding citizens were armed it might just be 20-30 dead Criminals. As horrid the act or what U feel of my text 💀OBAMANATION💀 can get on TV all they want. Shedding their fake tears to stir the populous. They've waited for this new platform to disarm America & trample our Constitutional rights to bear arms. And as bad as it sounds. Over a bunch of 'White' kids they could have cared less about. Bottom line Obamanation will never disarm America or limit ammunition in his Presidency. Anyway. Where's that hardcore left winger Adler at. I know 4 sure she's wanting to flap her yap.
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There's a quote I really love. Before you bake a cake, you must first create the universe.
Instead of arguing for allowing or banning guns, we really need to take a step back and figure out what compels the question to even be considered.
People tend to get stuck on an idea and get so attached to it, they find other ideas as a threat.
This thread for example.
Should we continue gun ownership, or make them illegal?The question that should be asked is "what is causing people to use firearms to commit crimes, and how can we actually try fixing the root cause in the minds of these individuals before the gun even entered the mix?"
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You can take the gun out of the hand of the criminal, but he is still a criminal. If we take away every gun in America, people will just use homemade bombs and knives to commit their deeds.
However, I do think that automatic weapons shouldn't be available to the public.
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Hyena, learn2read. I'm a gun owner and proud of it. You'll not find me saying to get rid of our guns; though, I do support stricter regulation. And, more importantly, what we need to fix to prevent these things has nothing to do with how many guns we have or don't have. Funny, show me what Obama has done to diminish gun rights, because the only things im seeing are where he's expanded them. I'll give you this though, ignorant fearmongering has indeed increased gun sales. That trade has people like you to thank for helping to increase their revenue. It's genius really, they don't even need advertisements. That ultra right has your head all confused with their abundant propaganda. Sounding a bit like Rush with all your emotional arguments rather than anything with substance or fact. Not a real surprise there, considering the source. Peace kit kat, kk.
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If you fix the reasons in the past, you avoid negative conclusions in the future.
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A non American (australian)point of view and question.
We had the port Arthur masacure were a arguable insane person like the school shooting killed many inosent people. The govt banned automatic and all military stile weapons and had a buy back of all licensed guns in the catogary. It didn't stop gun crime but it DID massively reduce the rate as guns had to be in a safe plus a Lot of other conditions, it was argued it would remove the impulse and crimes of passion and it did. we still have shootings but not that scale, criminals will allways get guns you can't stop that but you can slow or stop an insane person picking up a automatic rifle in a fit of depression or rage and exacting there price. Own weapons by all means but why do you need military automatic weapons? -
GreenPhoeni/x/ wrote:
That's exactly right. The answer is most definitely not more guns or less guns. If it were that simple, man would we have it made.There's a quote I really love. Before you bake a cake, you must first create the universe.
Instead of arguing for allowing or banning guns, we really need to take a step back and figure out what compels the question to even be considered.
People tend to get stuck on an idea and get so attached to it, they find other ideas as a threat.
This thread for example.
Should we continue gun ownership, or make them illegal?The question that should be asked is "what is causing people to use firearms to commit crimes, and how can we actually try fixing the root cause in the minds of these individuals before the gun even entered the mix?"
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America loves its right to bare arms and often brings up the milita argument. You are the strongest country on earth and any one that thinks they could land an army on main land USA this day an age is dreaming. How does it weaken you as a country to ban full auto weapons? Yes crazies can still use hand guns ect but you are removing the easy access while still retaining your ability to defend your self
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If it meant ending all the senseless violence that's been transpiring recently, I'd gladly relinquish all of my firearms. However, I know that isn't the case. Do we need better control of who has guns? Yes. But how do we get guns out of the hands of those who mean to do harm? It's a delicate situation and one that really has no definitive answer.
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Blaming guns for violence is like blaming airplanes for the World Trade Center.
Molon labe💥💥🔫
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Midgard wrote:
We don't. Problem is some of these guys think all their gun rights are going to be taken away if you take away these types of weapons. Nevermind they are basically weapons of mass destruction. Too busy with the NRA sitting on their shoulders, feeding them the good word to fight for their "rights".A non American (australian)point of view and question.
It didn't stop gun crime but it DID massively reduce the rate as guns had to be in a safe plus a Lot of other conditions, it was argued it would remove the impulse and crimes of passion and it did. we still have shootings but not that scale, criminals will allways get guns you can't stop that but you can slow or stop an insane person picking up a automatic rifle in a fit of depression or rage and exacting there price. Own weapons by all means but why do you need military automatic weapons? -
Yep. I knew propaganda TW Minister Adler would slither out her slimy hole. Claimed my thinking compels ignorant firearm mongering. The Ultra ( is dat Moose style) has my head confused & I sound like Rush. U cant lie 2 me or TW. Ur a left winger gun control freak perpetrating Ur center mass. Every1 dat knows U knows. U typed up all dat chit 4 nothing. & U don't own a gun either. So stop lying & trying to steal this thread. Kk
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I agree with Midgard! I know some of you are going to hate this but why do ordinary people need automatic and semi automatic assault weapons? I've never heard of someone hunting pig with an ak47. I'm not saying take all guns because IMO it's impossible. But get rid of the ones I mentioned.
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★Λddi★ wrote:
Good golly I'm laughing. Ur such a dumb hump.Midgard wrote:
. Problem is some of these guys think all their gun rights are going to be taken away if you take away these types of weapons. Nevermind they are basically weapons of mass destruction. Too busy with the NRA sitting on their shoulders, feeding them the good word to fight for their "rights".A non American (australian)point of view and question.
It didn't stop gun crime but it DID massively reduce the rate as guns had to be in a safe plus a Lot of other conditions, it was argued it would criminals will allways get guns you can't stop that but you can slow or stop an insane person picking up a automatic rifle in a fit of depression or rage and exacting there price. Own weapons by all means but why do you need military automatic weapons? -
Midgard wrote:
Are you asking America? Or just assuming one of us can answer for all Americans as a whole? Because I'm fairly certain I myself do not like guns. I own them. I enjoy shooting them at a range. I understand what they do. I would care less one day they all disappeared and there wasn't a need for them But I am not naive enough to just blame the tools. I blame the reasons they even exist.America loves its right to bare arms and often brings up the milita argument. You are the strongest country on earth and any one that thinks they could land an army on main land USA this day an age is dreaming. How does it weaken you as a country to ban full auto weapons? Yes crazies can still use hand guns ect but you are removing the easy access while still retaining your ability to defend your self
The point is, we the people are getting tricked into missing the point of every issue the world is faced with.
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Green. Here is U. I don't like guns. I own guns. I enjoy shooting them. I understand what they do. I would care less if they disappeared. Then say Ur not naive & blame them. Only point missed is U might not need to be in possession of a firearm cuz Ur sounding as jacked up as Adler.
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Real criminals will get weapons regardless of laws. Some of these new laws do stop shitty criminals from getting guns. I hate when they make new laws making it take longer for me to buy another gun but I understand it. I agree with guns being stored properly but regardless people wanting to commit crimes will complete the act and like stated above they will use other means. How much worse would it be if the guy killed those kids with a $5 machete from Walmart. It sucks because as much as I'm against gun control something needs to be done to take guns away from the fucktards of the world.
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How many of the people commiting these massacres are actually fully fledged criminals though? Does anyone know? I don't mean just your average joe who's been done for not paying fines and shit like that. I mean actual bad to the bone 2 strike felon criminal?
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A lot of them prolly aren't. Most situations seem to be acts of emotion or sometimes products of environment. The ironic thing is that throughout history words and individuals are far worse than guns. How many people did hitler kill vs how many he had others kill through his power of words. The media made everyone think they couldn't buy guns anymore and sales skyrocketed. Take every gun off the planet and u still have sticks and stones to throw.
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DAS HYENA™ wrote:
Because I'm the jackass then? That's the reason you are going with here? Well in that case you must be right! I mean its not like you understood the point I made.Green. Here is U. I don't like guns. I own guns. I enjoy shooting them. I understand what they do. I would care less if they disappeared. Then say Ur not naive & blame them. Only point missed is U might not need to be in possession of a firearm cuz Ur sounding as jacked up as Adler.
Man I am such a fucking idiot compared to you!
I'm terribly sorry for suggesting we actually remedy the causes which compels a person to shoot up a school, or rob a liquor store so these events don't even manifest in the future!
I mean shit.
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GreenPhoeni/x/ wrote:
The problem with this green is that it's simply impossible.DAS HYENA™ wrote:
Because I'm the jackass then? That's the reason you are going with here? Well in that case you must be right! I mean its not like you understood the point I made.Man I am such a fucking idiot compared to you!
I'm terribly sorry for suggesting we actually remedy the causes which compels a person to shoot up a school, or rob a liquor store so these events don't even manifest in the future!
I mean shit.
What causes someone to kill someone? Any reason can be enough. You could crash into my car and I'd shoot you out of rage. You could look at me funny and I'd shoot you out of rage.
Anything can trigger a killer. -
But that's the point. U don't need the trigger from a gun to kill. You need a means to kill. If u r gonna kill u will find a means to do so, some more horrific than others. If its a car accident u could run him over. If its a look u could head butt him to death. Guns aren't necessarily the issue people being nut jobs r.
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