National day of discussion: the gun issue in America
Forums › General Discussion › National day of discussion: the gun issue in America-
shittyone wrote:
U r g8 m8!But that's the point. U don't need the trigger from a gun to kill. You need a means to kill. If u r gonna kill u will find a means to do so, some more horrific than others. If its a car accident u could run him over. If its a look u could head butt him to death. Guns aren't necessarily the issue people being nut jobs r.
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You can't just buy an automatic weapon in the US. Have you ever tried to do that legally? I live in California. We have all sorts of crazy gun laws. They don't stop crimes.
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Guns don't kill people, people do.
With that said, if some gun-bearing criminal comes into my house, I want the means to stop him to be readily available.
Das, do you even understand any if greenman's points, or are you just spewing garbage out of your mouth? And I believe your "death toll by gun" to be a little high, as the U.S. wouldn't have anybody left in it if that was true. -
Wouldn't it make it harder for things like this to happen though if people weren't allowed to have firearms like assault rifles etc? Sorry if I sound like a wanker but I'm just trying to think outside the box. I mean it wouldn't stop all killing but it would limit potential victim numbers maybe? Thn again what's to stop someone loading up a bag of handguns and going on a rampage then? So many questions and so little answers. It's a tough one.
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There's 2 sides to this coin for guns or against. That's it. I got my first gun at 5 years old was taught how to use it and respect it. I was taught to respect life. I was given a butterfly knife and a roll of tape to learn how to flip it without cutting myself and respect the knife. America's issues lie with morals being enforced and taught or taught and enforced. If u fuck around with real shit u get real consequences. That's what I was taught. Where did that go. Why is that not a topic for discussion?
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This is the same as drinking. Should I not be allowed to drink responsibly because people are assholes and get drunk and kill people?
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U r more likely to die in a car accident then a plane crash but we still have cars.
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shittyone wrote:
No there absolutely aren't just two sides here. Taking away a gun from someone who society has failed, will not fix the person who had it! But there's no doubt taking guns away would drop gun related incidents drastically. For a little while. But then what? People will still have the same mindset as before.There's 2 sides to this coin for guns or against. That's it. I got my first gun at 5 years old was taught how to use it and respect it. I was taught to respect life. I was given a butterfly knife and a roll of tape to learn how to flip it without cutting myself and respect the knife. America's issues lie with morals being enforced and taught or taught and enforced. If u fuck around with real shit u get real consequences. That's what I was taught. Where did that go. Why is that not a topic for discussion?
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Hey green, was a base question I obviously can't ask all America I've lived in the states and served with your countries finest in some pretty messed up places in the world but a "general" view that keeps coming back when ever guns came up was this milita if needed and the view that any regulation on guns was a bad thing. It confused me then and still does to this day. Why you need full auto or semi auto MILITARY weapons (at home)?
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Green that's the point. Guns aren't the issue people are!!! Take guns away u get knives. Take knives away u get spoons. Take spoons away u get chopsticks which r pointier than spoons. R chopsticks the issue?? No. People r the issue. They will find a way.
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U can buy a drum clip for damn near anything but knives and bombs don't need to be reloaded.
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The issue at debate is guns. There r two sides. For or against. Done deal. I don't fault anyone's opinion I have my own.
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Nuclear fission was meant to help society but killed millions. People always find a way. U can't put rum on an infants gums to calm teething but u can give them acetemenaphin which destroys their liver and its ok. This isn't an easy fix with laws. Shit will still happen. Hell, a guy made a smiley face on a map with bombs. Next debate take bombs away. Oh wait u can't.
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Last thoughts and then I'm gone. Think whatever.
Cons
-suddenly making an object owned by over 100 million Americans would be complete insanity. I'm not saying they should be allowed. I'm not saying they should not.
-I'm saying that objects won't even relate to outcomes
-Its the person operating it that's relevant.However...
-Since taking that many away is crazy
-and they can't continue if humanity hopes to contiue.It's so obvious. Phase them out over generations. Make various government programs promoting compassion, and understanding. People eventually won't know what guns do. Killing a person wouldn't be rational.
Oh and sorry I suck tonight. I took an ambian and my shits all fuked.
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Finally it comes out. Add more staff to find kids that are going to shoot up schools. Or people to recognize people that r on drugs and not in the state of mind to operate guns let alone machinery or cars. Hold on a sec the guy I'm talking with is on prescription medication which is more wide spread then ever before. Maybe drugs altering mind sets r the issue.
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But ur right guns r the issue
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shittyone wrote:
Actually you will need to make/buy more bombs. As well remember the batman shooting I don't think he would have done half the damage with a knife or a handgun. Yes people ar to blame not guns. But still If you have common sence you won't allow your citizens to have machine guns. It's the same reason bazookas are illegal. You cant get to the route of the problem why people kill they all have different reasons. But obviously as said 1/3 of us citizens have guns you can't get rid of them. But regulations should be tighter and assault rifles should be outlawed. -
Any one that is planing a crime will use whatever they have at their disposal to commit that offence. People should go thru the same process to buy semi automatic wepons as if you were going to get a permit to carry instead of just a background check. Perhaps that will reduce the numbers casualtys when someone has a breakdown. Gun control is for people who can be controlled and though some people are responsible gun owners a lot of them are not. By placing a few more obsticals in front of them it will reduce the number of irresponsable gun owners having somthing that true gun enthusiast deserve to have.
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Midgard wrote:
If the purpose is to form a militia, military weapons are ideal, don't you think?But why do you keep bringing up full-auto military weapons? Regular people can't buy modern automatic weapons. The older machine guns that can be purchased are so rarely used in crime, it's not worth discussing.
Because a weapon is "tactical" and scary looking, people want them banned. Look out! He can strap a flash light on that bad boy! He might assault something! Dear GOD, that thing has a carry handle! A rifle is a rifle.
Our society has a problem with mental health. Regulate the weapons, but don't prevent people from self defense, hunting, or "forming a militia" when they are the protectors.
Police cannot protect when they are on route. They can only respond. If only an armed police officer could have been at that school and stopped him. If only someone in that office could have stopped him. It's painful to think about.
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Very painful indeed. I'm all the way on the other side of the globe and this has been running through my head all day. Sad sad last few days.
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...Also, arguments of equivalent force bother me.
A crazy guy with a knife should be stopped with a gun. Don't expect a young single Mother to protect her home with a knife. We don't have to be fair when fighting for what's right. We have to prevail.
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I just recently added another handgun, a shotgun, a semi automatic, a crossbow, a couple of swords, a few knives, and enough ammo to keep me in supply for a long while.
Y'all are forgetting one important thing, mother fucking zombies. 😲
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"The Man" wrote:
From my extensive research, I've found that all you need is a steel pole, an ash tray, a record, a cricket bat, a spade, a car, and a Winchester that hasn't been deactivated.I just recently added another handgun, a shotgun, a semi automatic, a crossbow, a couple of swords, a few knives, and enough ammo to keep me in supply for a long while.
Y'all are forgetting one important thing, mother fucking zombies. 😲
But dogs *CAN* look up.
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YOU wrote:
I just recently added another handgun, a shotgun, a semi automatic, a crossbow, a couple of swords, a few knives, and enough ammo to keep me in supply for a long while.
And on a serious note, even if my AR-15 is made to be illegal to sell again, the people that already own them get grandfathered in.
It's not like "The Man" is going to go door to door collecting them, hence the current shortage on those types of weapons in the Northern VA area right now. Mofo's are prepping, just in case the hippies get their way.
Remember, guns don't kill, people do. ✊
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I'm seeing a lot of misunderstanding from the anti gun people, and a lot of "don't take my gun" mentality from the pro gun camp. I don't see a problem with guns, I have a concealed carry license and carry every day. I'd gladly give it up tomorrow if I knew it would magically solve the problem, but it won't.
Someone made a point about how the Australian ban helped with crimes of passion, to say unplanned attacks. I could see that being the case. Removing guns does nothing to reduce the anger or rage, but maybe in one scenario the criminal would use a baseball bat instead of a gun. The victim still probably goes to the hospital. Was anything gained? I'd argue no.
Continued...
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I just find it sad that all these anti gun fanatics forget about the good that has come from law abiding citizens having guns. You rarely hear about all the lives saved/crimes adverted because of guns. Remember that event about a month ago that was all over the forums (before the devs deleted it) I'm sure all of them would have rather seen that poor little girl raped and murdered than have had the ability she did to get a gun and defend herself from that "hungry man". Stupid people will do stupid things albeit with guns, cars, drugs, alcohol, or ANYTHING! I hear some of you saying but removing full auto will help. Apparently you have no understanding on how incredibly EASY it is to take a weapon and a file and turn even a handgun into a full auto. Illegal is called illegal for a reason, doesn't mean people still won't do it.
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You could stop some 'bad events' from happening by removing guns out of public control. Example, the 4 year old that grabs his daddy's gun (which isn't safely stored) and accidentally kills themself or their sibling/friend by playing with it. What you won't ever stop is the nut cases that methodically put on their body armor, arm to the hilt, and go to a place to massacre people to make their point.
You can make laws till your blue in the face saying how people must keep their weapons stored, what kind they can possess, etc. But until the day comes when every single residence is checked with a search and seizure to hold up these 'laws' you will never control what people have or do.
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Gun control .... Next we will attempt to make vehicle ownership more difficult for sober people because of a few drunk drivers
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Looking at the premeditated crimes, does removing legal access to guns fix anything? Again I'd say no especially in the mass murder scenario. These criminally insane people want to kill. Take the gun out of their hand and they will get a chain saw, or build pipe bombs. No amount of laws or restrictions will fix a crazy persons desires.
As for military style weapons, do we need them? No. Do we need sports cars, and before you answer you should know that people die in sports cars. For those unfamiliar with guns, you need to understand that a military style rifle does not shoot magic bullets, they shoot standard bullets that are also fired from more conventional looking guns. The only difference is they have the ability to hold more ammunition (not that any gun couldn't have a large magazine) and they have the ability to attach lights and other fancy do-dats. They areno more or less lethal.
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Automatic weapons are difficult to get through legal means, and extremely expensive. They are also safer for the person being shot at because they are difficult to aim when on an automatic fire setting. Again, they are no more or less lethal than any other gun. If anything if I had someone shooting at me I'd rather they have an automatic weapon, but that's not the point.
Green hit the nail on the head, we need to address the problem, not the method. I don't know what the problem is, but I think it all comes back to the idea that we can't hurt anyone's feelings and that everyone must be made to feel special. You know, replacing first, second and third ribbons with participation ribbons in school. Then you tell someone life isn't all peaches and cream and they go off the deep end.
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