National day of discussion: the gun issue in America
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There is a simple gun control measure that I think would lessen the number of guns floating around.
First, forget the background checks. Make people take tests and get licensed not just to conceal carry a weapon but to own one. Right now, as long as you don't have a record, anyone can buy a gun. Screw that.
Second, actually punish people who can't control their guns. Right now, if you lose your gun and it's used in a crime, just prove you were somewhere else and you'll be fine. Instead, if you lose your gun, you should have all the rest taken away, your license taken away, and you should be hauled off to jail. If there were real penalties, more guns would be under lock and key, and some kid wouldn't be able to steal his parent's guns and shoot up places.
The 2nd amendment says we have a right to bear arms, but nothing says we have to give that right to everyone or not punish those who can't handle that right.
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And everyone saying we need to address the underlying cultural problem and not gun control...seriously? What is wrong with you? Fixing our culture takes time. Let's address BOTH problems, at the SAME time!
"Guns don't kill people, crazy people kill people." Yes, but they use guns to kill people. Take them away and it will be harder. And fix the crazy at the same time.
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☣FƲϦᎯર☣ wrote:
👍👍👍👍👍👍There is no gun issue... Criminals do not abide by gun laws... Any further gun laws will only prohibit law abiding citizens from having guns.
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Guns don't kill people, people kill people with guns. If you want to stop gun violence teach everyone gun safety, and self control. Also make laws that crimes done with guns have a double criminal sentence, that will stop some gun violence.
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👆 well said mojopilot. Drunk driving is illegal, but u don't hear everyone calling for alcohol to be banned (again, look how well that worked the first time) everytime some drunk asshole takes out a family in a minivan. To those who don't live here, we are allowed to buy military STYLE guns. They are semi auto versions of the fully auto ones, but not actual military guns. We don't NEED them, but I do really enjoy going to the range and shooting them. I have never shot a pig with an AK, but my first several deer did fall to a SKS; which shoots the same bullet as an AK. If we ban certain guns, just like we have drugs, then they will just give the Mexican cartels one more thing to import. Mass killings are a tragedy, no doubt, but it isn't only based on access to guns. Just ask Timothy McVey.
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4nick8r wrote:
If a bar serves someone who then kills people by drunk driving, or even just gets arrested for drunk driving, the bar is liable. A bar near me was shut down because they caused too many drunk driving incidents.Drunk driving is illegal, but u don't hear everyone calling for alcohol to be banned (again, look how well that worked the first time) everytime some drunk asshole takes out a family in a minivan.
Unfortunately, if a mass-murderer gets a gun from his parents house, the parents are NOT held liable for supplying the instrument of death. Why the hell not?
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Tweek wrote:
😳😳😳😳shittyone wrote:
U r g8 m8!But that's the point. U don't need the trigger from a gun to kill. You need a means to kill. If u r gonna kill u will find a means to do so, some more horrific than others. If its a car accident u could run him over. If its a look u could head butt him to death. Guns aren't necessarily the issue people being nut jobs r.
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★Λubergine★ wrote:
Many states do punish those who don't control their guns. Leave a gun where a kid can get it, ur going to jail. In this most recent case, I believe his mother paid the ultimate price. If someone breaks in & steals alcohol from a bar, should they be liable? The gun in the Oregon mall shooting was stolen.4nick8r wrote:
If a bar serves someone who then kills people by drunk driving, or even just gets arrested for drunk driving, the bar is liable. A bar near me was shut down because they caused too many drunk driving incidents.Unfortunately, if a mass-murderer gets a gun from his parents house, the parents are NOT held liable for supplying the instrument of death. Why the hell not?
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4nick8r wrote:
Fuck yea! If you get your gun stolen, you should be locked up, not allowed to have more guns.★Λubergine★ wrote:
Many states do punish those who don't control their guns. Leave a gun where a kid can get it, ur going to jail. In this most recent case, I believe his mother paid the ultimate price. If someone breaks in & steals alcohol from a bar, should they be liable? The gun in the Oregon mall shooting was stolen.4nick8r wrote:
If a bar serves someone who then kills people by drunk driving, or even just gets arrested for drunk driving, the bar is liable. A bar near me was shut down because they caused too many drunk driving incidents.Unfortunately, if a mass-murderer gets a gun from his parents house, the parents are NOT held liable for supplying the instrument of death. Why the hell not?
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Guns kill people the same way that spoons make people fat.
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shittyone wrote:
👍👍... America's issues lie with morals being enforced and taught or taught and enforced. If u fuck around with real shit u get real consequences. That's what I was taught. Where did that go. Why is that not a topic for discussion?
This is the same as drinking. Should I not be allowed to drink responsibly because people are assholes and get drunk and kill people? -
Intent is the key when people eat theirselves fat because of personal issues or drink and drive because of bad judgment their is no intent to hurt other people. I don't understand the psychology of the use of guns to commit mass murder. Using a vehicle would be faster and easier and would probably cause more damage. Is it the planning of the crime that they get off on and the act itself just a small part of the whole?
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The UK manages without guns. How many people died in gun related issues this year? About 8? I understand that in the USA your rules for guns are very different than ours. I'll chuck my view in from a UK perspective.
Your never going to ban guns overnight. That's bollocks. But isn't it a little too easy to get a gun? I'm sure if you take firearms serious you wouldn't mind a stricter way of buying and holding a weapon? As for what gun. A handgun can make you just as dead as a semi-automatic... -
GreenPhoeni/x/ wrote:
👌👍👏First thing that comes to mind for a pro...
If I'm not mistaken, I believe I heard that at least a third of the population of the United States are armed with one or more firearms.
Which leads to my next thought... That's anywhere from 120millon-200million firearms. That's probably low a low estimate.
Now imagine the mainland US was being invaded by ground forces.
Suddenly a third or more of America's civilians now become a possible insurgents or minutemen.
A militia of hundreds of millions just like that. No army on earth comes close.
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Sure, the ideal solution is to "fix" the reasons that lead to one person killing another. So how do we fix such varied reasons as rage, no conscience, enjoyment of killing others, other mental issues, etc.? It's been thousands of years and we have yet to find solutions. If solutions are ever found, we should be able to achieve world peace. I think this would be incredible, but I'm not holding my breath.
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You can't legislate "crazy". Nuff said
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Shootings you hear little about on the news:
Pearl High School, 1997
Student killed mother, drives to school and killed two students. Apprehended by armed principal five minutes before police arrived. No further casualties.Parker Middle School, 1998
Student killed one teacher at a restaurant near a school dance. Apprehended by armed restaurant owner eleven minutes before police arrived. No further casualties.Appalachian School of Law, 2002
Student killed two teachers and one student. Apprehended by two armed students, who were also off duty law enforcement officers, before police arrived. No further casualties.New Life Church, 2007
Gunman killed five people. Armed security guard shot and wounded gunman, who then fatally shot himself. No further casualties. -
Trolley Square Shopping Mall, 2007
Gunman killed five people. Cornered by armed mall patron, who was an off duty police officer, until police arrived and shot gunman dead. No further casualties.New Destiny Christian Center, 2012
Gunman killed one person. Armed church member who was an off duty police officer shot and killed gunman. No further casualties.Each innocent death is tragic, and there is no way to know how many more may, or may not, have been killed in these incidents had an armed civilian not intervened. I would rather have a legally armed civilian intervene early than wait for the police to arrive too late.
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Brown🎵Note😲 wrote:
"The Man" wrote:
From my extensive research, I've found that all you need is a steel pole, an ash tray, a record, a cricket bat, a spade, a car, and a Winchester that hasn't been deactivated.I just recently added another handgun, a shotgun, a semi automatic, a crossbow, a couple of swords, a few knives, and enough ammo to keep me in supply for a long while.
Y'all are forgetting one important thing, mother fucking zombies. 😲
But dogs *CAN* look up.
No they can't you son of a bitch.
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ℜagɳar Loðbrók wrote:
I got a chill when you mentioned that shooting. The widow of one of those two professors works for my wife.Shootings you hear little about on the news:
Appalachian School of Law, 2002
Student killed two teachers and one student. Apprehended by two armed students, who were also off duty law enforcement officers, before police arrived. No further casualties. -
★Λubergine★ wrote:
Actually the 2nd amendment does give that right to everyone✂.
The 2nd amendment says we have a right to bear arms, but nothing says we have to give that right to everyone or not punish those who can't handle that right.
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★Λubergine★ wrote:
If crazy people work hard enough they will get a gun, no matter how many laws there are. The black market is always open, so you can't stop guns. If you let citizens have guns, they can protect themselves.And everyone saying we need to address the underlying cultural problem and not gun control...seriously? What is wrong with you? Fixing our culture takes time. Let's address BOTH problems, at the SAME time!
"Guns don't kill people, crazy people kill people." Yes, but they use guns to kill people. Take them away and it will be harder. And fix the crazy at the same time.
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In my opinion, if gun control was significantly increased, crime would increase or not change. I read that America has something like over 100 million guns( fact check me cuz I'm not sure). So, those guns would become only more valuable. Then a new black market for guns opens. Then those shady deals will increase overall crime (it'll also increase the proportion of bad citizens who have guns compared to good citizens). I'm just using the same principle which happened during prohibition.
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I was just thinking about the gun debate down here in oz. the reason why I think there's not more guns around is because of how expensive it is to buy them both legally and illegally. Also how hard it is to get a gun license. I can never get 1 because of serious charges I have faced in te past. I have also tried to buy handguns before but forking out $3k on a glock wasn't something I wasn't willing to do. Unfortunately for us I'm guessing every gun in the country has been imported? In not sure on that but I don't think we have a gun manufacturer in any part of the country.
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Was willing **
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I say we copy British gun laws. In the UK it is illegal to own a handgun or an assault rifle. Hunters are allowed to own shotguns or hunting rifles but it is very hard to get them. As a result, there is much less gun violence then in the US. There is so little gun violence that cops don't even carry guns themselves.
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After gun laws in California banned the ownership of .50 cal Barretts by civilians, Ronnie Barrett (owner of the company) stopped all sales of the guns to Californian police, saying that he was not going to allow the police to have more firepower than the citizens. He was damn right in saying that. Any type of ban on any gun should result in the same gun banned for police.
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Man Canada's awesome, I went to Florida when I was 16, cruising around. Stopped at some light I look over and lock eyes with a massive african american driving a 300c with 40" chromes lol. He proceeded to tap his black chrome desert eagle against the window pointing ar me. I freaked out. Canada is so chill lol makes it easy to pick out the criminals. But yeah clearly something needs to happen guys if you deny that your closing your eyes.
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Silent Arcani wrote:
Get with the times. The cops in the UK carry guns now.I say we copy British gun laws. In the UK it is illegal to own a handgun or an assault rifle. Hunters are allowed to own shotguns or hunting rifles but it is very hard to get them. As a result, there is much less gun violence then in the US. There is so little gun violence that cops don't even carry guns themselves.
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Cops should carry guns as there job requires them to chase those that have either illegal or legal fire arms. And why should the Police not out gun the crims ? if your not doing anything wrong you have very little to fear.
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