2012 election
Forums › General Discussion › 2012 election-
Im voting for mitt Romney, he is the country need right at this moment. Maybe he won't be the next go around, but in this election we need someone who is qualified.
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Brown🎵Note wrote:
As you stated earlier, socialism is an economic system. It was responsible only for the deaths it caused due to poor distribution of resources. The death of political dissidents, on the other hand, was a result of the totalitarian implementation of the communist POLITICAL system, not the economics of socialism. Under capitalism, tobacco companies were allowed to freely market the only product, which when used properly, results in early death. The poor implementation of utopian socialism unintentionally starved people. Same diff.And to compare people being shot in the head for speaking out against government to a bloated death toll of voluntary smokers... Sick.
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Don't you think the socialist system had something to do with low productivity, low quality product and inefficient distribution?
I live pretty darn well in this system. I planted all the turf I wanted to, where and when I wanted to, and the money came in and I bought whatever I wanted to. I could form corporations (alliances) and I could compete openly with othe alliances.
Nobody would play this game otherwise.
You are a member of the democratic party. You are a registered ________.
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I don't recall saying that the military is a model for society. If anything, the military is a cautionary tale against extreme top-down utopian socialism. Like I said, no one is arguing for that in civilian life. It just so happens that it's the best way for the military to do it's job. Not sure if it matters if the military is funded "externally", technically all American socialist institutions (welfare, SS, Medicare, USPS, fire, police, rural electrification) are funded externally (or internally depending on your viewpoint). Where the military differs is that it is basically a nation unto itself. It has it's own court systems, law enforcement and governing bodies and entitlement programs. The military undeniably has it's own economy. The military owns it's own means of production and provides a service. The military purchases resources which it distributes equitably using the socialist economic model. Saying that it is funded externally actually reinforces this fact.
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Dont forget... I work within the federal government. I know how well it functions.
I shit you not.. There is someone in my office that LITERALLY does nothing all day, every day for the last 4 years.
This person has paid their dues, and has earned this 110K year Internet surfing break. They can't fire this person, or force them to work.
What is the incentive for this person's boss to fix the problem? If the problem is exposed, the boss gets in trouble.
There is no motivation to be efficient when it's someone else's money.
Thomas Paine was right. At BEST, government is a necessary evil.
It's too big.
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The military has zero production. It has no economy. It has as its core a capitalist provider.
In your list of social programs, you forget (as most big government advocates do) that most social programs... All really... Are state and local functions. The federal government should not be doing these things.
What do you have against states running their own programs?
The federal government should be small, and unobtrusive.
You disagree?
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You realize that a product can be a good or a service? The military produces soldiers, and more abstractly produces peace through superior firepower. With the exception of police and fire (which do take federal dollars) those are all federal programs that have served us well. We have federal programs because history has shown that many states are unwilling or unable to provide basic services for their citizens, most of the red states take in more federal dollars than they contribute. I don't disagree that the federal government is a bloated, clumsy machine collapsing under it's own weight, I just disagree with the causes. This federal government once worked efficiently while providing for the national defense AND promoting the general welfare. What's changed? Taxes are lower than they have been in a long time, business regulations and anti-trust laws have been weakened or ignored, the social safety net has been reformed and streamlined, union membership and influence has dwindled....
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The burden on the rich is less than it's ever been and the traditional social contract with the middle class that this country was built on (work hard and you will likely prosper) has been broken. I'm having trouble seeing how the burdens supposedly created by the weakest among us are the cause of all our woes. It stands to reason that the wealthy and connected have the true power to hollow out our national core, not the poor.
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It doesn't matter if a Republican or a Democrat is voted in. They all promise alot of things to get elected and then don't deliver anything they promised in the first place. No matter which party is elected in, the rich will still be rich and the poor will still be poor.
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Addi, it's the same old argument, but you leave out the numbers for tax revenue. You say taxes are too low, lower than they have been in a long time... But how are the revenues? Higher than ever? Hmmmmmm..
You don't seem to value the freedoms we lose like I do, so there's no sense arguing all this.
I put a high value on privacy, choice, freedom to prosper, and property.
You seem to value more the social net the government provides, paid for with "excess" prosperity. They are inversely linked at the fundamental level.
My ideal balance is just more individual freedom than yours is.
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Brown🎵Note wrote:
F off brown note. They risk their lives so you can sit all nice and cozy playing TW in your home. We owe them a lot and calling them socialist will only get you in the ER.(maybe don't bash me for saying democrat, and I'll stop bashing you for calling the military socialist.)
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👍Ron Paul
Please no more pretty boys
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Brown🎵Note wrote:
What? You don't want to re-live 1984 the age of big brother? How unorthodox.Addi.. Ohhhhhhh you meant internal military structure. So you want more of a military structure to our society.
You want to wear a uniform, do exactly as your told or go to the brig to face judgement. You are US Government property when you sign up. I didn't know that's what you wanted.
The difference is SOCIALISM is an ECONOMIC STRUCTURE. The military is not. It is funded 100% externally.
As for democrat being a pejorative, what's your point?
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Zebulon Pike wrote:
Biggest fail in shortest statement category.Brown🎵Note wrote:
F off brown note. They risk their lives so you can sit all nice and cozy playing TW in your home. We owe them a lot and calling them socialist will only get you in the ER.(maybe don't bash me for saying democrat, and I'll stop bashing you for calling the military socialist.)
1. I was military.
2. It wasn't me calling it socialist.
3. I don't play turfwars.
4. The ER is pointless for someone that doesn't play.A+ For effort though.
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DONALD TRUMP
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Add mee BREEM538
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Corporate and income tax revenues as a percentage of GDP are down from 2008 levels, and right in the same range as they have been for 50 years. Pretty consistently, around 10-12% of our economic output has historically gone toward the costs of government.
It must be nice for the greatest threat to your individual liberty to be being asked to chip in, and not liking where some of it goes. Or worse, having your liberty stepped on when you have to ask for a hand up when your luck runs out and there's no one else to turn to. No one is forcing you to contribute, by the way... -
It's pay-to-play. Don't like property taxes? Don't own or rent real estate. Live in your car or on the street. Don't like income taxes? Don't have a job. Live off charity. Don't like corporate taxes? Don't own a business, work for someone else. Don't like sales tax? Don't buy retail consumer products. You're gonna have to show me where in the constitution it guarantees you the explicit right to unfettered individual prosperity without taxation, or the right to make transactions in a government protected, government stabilized, government insured "private" marketplace with government owned and backed treasury bearer bills and not expect to pay a user's fee.
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Zebulon Pike wrote:
Funniest statement of the year.Brown🎵Note wrote:
F off brown note. They risk their lives so you can sit all nice and cozy playing TW in your home. We owe them a lot and calling them socialist will only get you in the ER.(maybe don't bash me for saying democrat, and I'll stop bashing you for calling the military socialist.)
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Λdོdོi wrote:
The government serves the people, not the other way around.Corporate and income tax revenues as a percentage of GDP are down from 2008 levels, and right in the same range as they have been for 50 years. Pretty consistently, around 10-12% of our economic output has historically gone toward the costs of government.
It must be nice for the greatest threat to your individual liberty to be being asked to chip in, and not liking where some of it goes. Or worse, having your liberty stepped on when you have to ask for a hand up when your luck runs out and there's no one else to turn to. No one is forcing you to contribute, by the way... -
My name is Charles, and I approve this argument. Also, I am fond of testudines.
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ßelial wrote:
Out military isn't what you think. Do you know how many gangs are in the military? Did you ever hear of the soldier who tried to turn in people in a helicopter shooting down innocent people? Yeah, well, he's being tortured for trying to reveal government secrets. You are brain washed if you think our military is oh so amazing. I'm not saying it's everyone, but they definitely aren't what puts me to sleep at night.Zebulon Pike wrote:
Funniest statement of the year.Brown🎵Note wrote:
F off brown note. They risk their lives so you can sit all nice and cozy playing TW in your home. We owe them a lot and calling them socialist will only get you in the ER.(maybe don't bash me for saying democrat, and I'll stop bashing you for calling the military socialist.)
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Hey, ashabasha.
Fuck you.
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(as a percentage of GDP)
As if the cost of government were somehow linked to GDP.The only link is how much of GDP can be raped without destroying the economy.
How about real dollars adjusted for inflation?
Taxes are a necessary evil. Minimize them to what is necessary.
Income tax is discriminatory, invasive to privacy, removes freedom of what to do with MY property, and should be abolished.
Pay to play is consumption tax. I entirely support a federal consumption tax after the income tax amendment is repealed.
Why are you against that?
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Wiki leaks I believe is what you were talking about.... Fox news will never show that kinda news
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(and once again you blend state and federal government as if they are the same thing.)
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Brown🎵Note wrote:
👏👏👏👏👏☝☝(and once again you blend state and federal government as if they are the same thing.)
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Your government has spent $48,313.20 in uncollected taxes from every citizen of this country.
When are you going to pay your "fair share"? Don't forget to pitch in for the kids and grandparents.
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my parents are pist because i dont go to school, but whats the point in this f'd up economy the highschool diploma aint worth sh*t
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Brown🎵Note wrote:
And it will be more than 50 tril by next year if we don't step inYour government has spent $48,313.20 in uncollected taxes from every citizen of this country.
When are you going to pay your "fair share"? Don't forget to pitch in for the kids and grandparents.
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