Is it possible..........
Forums › General Discussion › Is it possible..........-
....to have a debate concerning religion without it turning nasty?
This may or may not be an appropriate place for these debates BUT, seeing some of the offensive things posted in these forums we might as well try. Right? JCMC??
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Don't bother this has been tried b4
worked fine for bout an hr
then it got stupid and argumentative
(which was no fault of mine) -
I have lost religion in my life :(
but gl
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This is sort of a continuation of another thread. I think it's possible. Religous intolerance in itself is offensive. You don't have to believe what I believe and vice versa. I just don't get why it has to always turn out negative.
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Define religious intolerance.
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Religion is a passionate subject. I get that but doesn't it paint religion in a bad light when you cannot (or choose not to) engage in civil conversation on the subject?
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Who is not engaging in a civil conversation on the subject ?
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Not you JCMC. The history of religous debate in this forum has been ugly. To me, religous intolerance is not being able to exist with another religion simply because it is not your religion.
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OR, being able to accept the fact that someone may or not believe the way you do.
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Oh ok. Well I have not seen any of the previous threads on this so cannot comment on them. All the same, your description of religious intolerance is pretty abstract I have to say. Some more context would be helpful.
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Religion is a great tool to install certain moral or social values in the masses, it's also very powerful tool to control those masses and as such can be very easy missused. Fact that every religion is built on faith rather then hard evidence plus number of religious fanatics out there makes it really difficult topic to discus in s civil fashion.
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BENNEY *ADD BOOB* wrote:
What other thread are you referring to? The one about the guy who was stabbed on the subway? Just wonderingDon't bother this has been tried b4
worked fine for bout an hr
then it got stupid and argumentative
(which was no fault of mine) -
How this? If I were Baptist and could not sit down and have a conversation with a Catholic because they believe in purgatory and I don't, that's religous intolerance. Respecting another persons beliefs should be a staple of all religions. Respect does not mean that you have to agree.
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The second post gives a little more context.
The problem I have with religion as such is the demand that religious people have that the rest of us need to take their religion and their belief system seriously and treat it with respect in both the private and the public realm.
All religion is blind faith and is based upon no evidence whatsoever, this is not something that is essentially contestable.
If people wish to worship their own personal God in their churches, mosques and synagogues then good luck to them. If people want the curious and outdated rules they claim their God demands within their religion to shape the secular world we live in, as they increasingly are, then this is the core of the problem for me at least.
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Natedogg wrote:
very trueHow this? If I were Baptist and could not sit down and have a conversation with a Catholic because they believe in purgatory and I don't, that's religous intolerance. Respecting another persons beliefs should be a staple of all religions. Respect does not mean that you have to agree.
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Scroobius Pip wrote:
The threads that I am referring to were long ago and frankly, not worth looking for. This is a continuation of the subway thread though.BENNEY *ADD BOOB* wrote:
What other thread are you referring to? The one about the guy who was stabbed on the subway? Just wonderingDon't bother this has been tried b4
worked fine for bout an hr
then it got stupid and argumentative
(which was no fault of mine) -
Natedogg wrote:
Do you draw the line somewhere though? Do you respect Satanists? Scientologists? I suppose it depends somewhat on your definition of respect but still...How this? If I were Baptist and could not sit down and have a conversation with a Catholic because they believe in purgatory and I don't, that's religous intolerance. Respecting another persons beliefs should be a staple of all religions. Respect does not mean that you have to agree.
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JCMC wrote:
i have to agree with this as wellThe second post gives a little more context.
The problem I have with religion as such is the demand that religious people have that the rest of us need to take their religion and their belief system seriously and treat it with respect in both the private and the public realm.
All religion is blind faith and is based upon no evidence whatsoever, this is not something that is essentially contestable.
If people wish to worship their own personal God in their churches, mosques and synagogues then good luck to them. If people want the curious and outdated rules they claim their God demands within their religion to shape the secular world we live in, as they increasingly are, then this is the core of the problem for me at least.
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It does depend on what respect is defines as. I respect the fact that Satanist or Scientologists have the right to believe what they want to. I can try and minister to them my beliefs but if they ultimately choose Satanism or Scientology, I don't begrudge them that.
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There is a big difference between tolerating and respecting something.
Leaving aside the more creepy cult like elements of coercion and bullying, Scientology has a wacky belief system involving aliens and all manner of nonsense. Some of the most vocal criticism of this cult / religion comes from the more established religions who dismiss it as a joke.
To be honest, to laugh at the excesses of Scientology when you subscribe to religions who advocate unshakeable belief in creationism, a woman giving birth without sexual intercourse and resurrection from the dead is rather hypocritical.
The only real difference between the established religions and Scientology is time, they have had hundreds and thousands of years to indoctrinate followers with eyebrow raising beliefs, the Scientologists have only had 50 years.
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Natedogg wrote:
Yeah I agree with you there. I had a debate about religion and society before with someone and much of it eventually boiled down to our differing definitions of respect.It does depend on what respect is defines as. I respect the fact that Satanist or Scientologists have the right to believe what they want to. I can try and minister to them my beliefs but if they ultimately choose Satanism or Scientology, I don't begrudge them that.
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I think I put more emphasis on tolerance than respect, given that I find it hard to respect someone with childish beliefs based on unwillingness to question what they have been taught
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You should never take religous teachings with a grain of salt. Questioning "why" you believe something is natural and refreshing.
Human nature is to mock what we don't understand because it's different. I don't agree with Scientology and I think time will not be kind to that belief system.
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Do you question why you believe in your religion ? It doesn't come across strongly that you might it has to be said.
And what exactly is there not to understand here. I understand that belief in God has the same evidence to support it as belief in the tooth fairy. What I do not understand is how people can suspend all critical faculties to believe in something that doesn't exist.
Why do you not disagree with Scientology and in what way is belief in that different from belief in your own religion ?
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I dont believe in god.
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JCMC wrote:
Wait who are you talking to?Do you question why you believe in your religion ? It doesn't come across strongly that you might it has to be said.
And what exactly is there not to understand here. I understand that belief in God has the same evidence to support it as belief in the tooth fairy. What I do not understand is how people can suspend all critical faculties to believe in something that doesn't exist.
Why do you not disagree with Scientology and in what way is belief in that different from belief in your own religion ?
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Natedogg
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Jcmc that's what the whole religion argument boils down to isn't it. You can't prove that it doesn't exist just as I can't prove that it does. It all falls back on what each person believes. As long ad people are tolerant with each other no matter what side ur on, I believe we can coexist. But I will never stop answering questions and ministering to people if they ask me about religion.
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I don't question my core beliefs any longer. I did question them as a adolescent though. Proof is different things to different people and from where I sit, there is a ton of proof to support Christianity.
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Big Hank wrote:
But you can look at it in terms of probability, in shades of grey, not simply balck or whiteJcmc that's what the whole religion argument boils down to isn't it. You can't prove that it doesn't exist just as I can't prove that it does. It all falls back on what each person believes. As long ad people are tolerant with each other no matter what side ur on, I believe we can coexist. But I will never stop answering questions and ministering to people if they ask me about religion.
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Sorry black not balck stupid iPod keyboard
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