Health Care Reform. Good or Bad?
Forums › General Discussion › Health Care Reform. Good or Bad?-
Enforcer3306 wrote:
Yes as Enforcer said it's sorta backwards over there... Sorry. But Canada is the same way and they come to us for health care. Well not anymore that were the same... Now there isn't anywhere to go.howard wrote:
dude I don't care how things work in your little backwards island so go eat some blood pudding or something.I still don't think you Americans don't realise we had te same thing and it's worked out great
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Enforcer3306 wrote:
WTF our backwards little island? Blood pudding? I think you need to wake up and realize America isn't the only modern country in the world. Typical American kid thinking America is all powerfullhoward wrote:
dude I don't care how things work in your little backwards island so go eat some blood pudding or something.I still don't think you Americans don't realise we had te same thing and it's worked out great
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T Bock wrote:
what exactly is backwards here? The fact were not all so fat?Enforcer3306 wrote:
Yes as Enforcer said it's sorta backwards over there... Sorry. But Canada is the same way and they come to us for health care. Well not anymore that were the same... Now there isn't anywhere to go.howard wrote:
dude I don't care how things work in your little backwards island so go eat some blood pudding or something.I still don't think you Americans don't realise we had te same thing and it's worked out great
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president nixon wrote:
The public schools are there for good because without education were screwed. But it's different when it comes to health care. And the majority of Americans arnt against Public Health Care. Then medicare is to help people who can't help themselves this is making people buy health care, and social security was a screw up because it didn't turn into what it was said to be. But I also said we just have to be carefull or we will be in trouble I never said we could be pushed over the edge by a grain of sand.If the slope to communism is so slippery why didn't we slide down it after those secret commies started a non-profit standing military? Why hasn't the socialist public school system created a one world government? Why didn't medicare or social security come with an oath to the Czar?
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howard wrote:
haha yes. I have to say touché on that one. You seriously gave me a good laughT Bock wrote:
what exactly is backwards here? The fact were not all so fat?Enforcer3306 wrote:
Yes as Enforcer said it's sorta backwards over there... Sorry. But Canada is the same way and they come to us for health care. Well not anymore that were the same... Now there isn't anywhere to go.howard wrote:
dude I don't care how things work in your little backwards island so go eat some blood pudding or something.I still don't think you Americans don't realise we had te same thing and it's worked out great
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What you totally miss is that the government is supposed be socialist. You seem to see the USSR as a model of what that leads to but it's just one example. In the US we do it differently.
You see the Soviet Union was a dictatorship so it owned the product of the people's labor. But in America the people are the government so we pay taxes and then we own the product of the governments labor. That's what the founding fathers created. They didn't want some crazy free market Barter Town. They wanted a government responsible to the people. Right now people need health care so it's the governments duty to provide it. If the citizenry was able to provide it to themselves then I would agree with you that the bill was unnecessary.
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yes, I understand your sentiment, although I do think it's flawed. But the issue here really shouldn't be political or along party lines. I mean, the idea is to provide healthcare for ALL citizens of the US. I believe there was a stat that came out that stated that many personal bankruptcies were linked to healthcare costs. Really, does a person in a Country like the US really need to decide if they are going to save their life with a medical procedure and face bankruptcy/poverty OR just die??? I know that's an extreme case & I hope no one here ever has to face a reality like that but it is a reality for a lot of people.
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I do no think it's right that the upper and middle class (also refered to as the working class) have to pay taxes into this health care. It's not right that the people who worked hard to get where they are at today have to pay for the welfare junkies who won't get there lazy asses up and go get an education and a job. Now don't get me wrong I understand that there are situations where government help is needed and that not everyone on welfare is lazy or doesn't have an education but most take advantage of it.
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This is really interesting. So imma have to bump.
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howard wrote:
No I just have to agree with Enforcer on everything... But I still don't want your socialised health care and I explained why.T Bock wrote:
what exactly is backwards here? The fact were not all so fat?Enforcer3306 wrote:
Yes as Enforcer said it's sorta backwards over there... Sorry. But Canada is the same way and they come to us for health care. Well not anymore that were the same... Now there isn't anywhere to go.howard wrote:
dude I don't care how things work in your little backwards island so go eat some blood pudding or something.I still don't think you Americans don't realise we had te same thing and it's worked out great
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Yes as Enforcer said it's sorta backwards over there... Sorry. But Canada is the same way and they come to us for health care. Well not anymore that were the same... Now there isn't anywhere to go.
Actually, that's not entirely true. Yes, SOME Canadians were going to private clinics in the US to get stuff done. But they were the wealthy ones who wanted skirt the line ups. But for the general public, no one could afford what they charge over in the US.
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I think everyone has mixed feelings about people taking advantage of the system but if we negate the system just because of them then what are we left with?
Health care is a screwed up system that has jacked up prices on needed medicine and care. It absolutely needs to be reformed. But what so many opponents of this reform don't offer is any workable alternative.
It's not just about fluffy clouds and everyone holding hands either. Comprehensive health care is a matter of national security as well. If people could afford and then got regular check ups and could then afford the prescribed treatment things like flu epidemics would be easier to control.
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RPL wrote:
it is a reality for those of us with pre-existing conditions, even with health ins there is a chance of getting told no because it relates to what you had originally. The problem I'm facing could literally kill me, and as it stands, depending on the ortho, the treatment may or may not be covered. So what do you do? Sit up at night worrying, thinking of your kids, hoping that whatever the dr decides that there will be a way to make it happen and you'll be there to watch them grow up. The bill may be flawed, but at least it's a step towards people not having to make those choices RPL stated, and getting people medical care before something comes along and destroys themyes, I understand your sentiment, although I do think it's flawed. But the issue here really shouldn't be political or along party lines. I mean, the idea is to provide healthcare for ALL citizens of the US.
(quote shortened for space) -
But it's still not right that my tax money goes to those who refuse to get an education and won't get a job. But then again someone has to flip the patties.
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I've skipped over most of the posts cos I'm lazy, but all this shit about the ussr and comunism is just an excuse for not paying for a health system. In the land of uk we pay a one % 'tax' and so do our employers on 'national insurance', which pays for the national health service and the state pension. This entitles any uk citizen to free health care ( yes FREE) when they need it. It may not be the best in the world, but it is good. Very good compared to nothing! You moaning Americans need to stop whining about helping a poorer person out, yes, maybe they don't work as hard as you, or maybe they don't even deserve it. But shouldn't you still help out a needy neighbour? Of course you should, stop being selfish. If your average in the US, your still rich! Come on, be a good American!
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bazboffer wrote:
your obvioulsy not familiarized with how things are and how they work here in the U.S.I've skipped over most of the posts cos I'm lazy, but all this shit about the ussr and comunism is just an excuse for not paying for a health system. In the land of uk we pay a one % 'tax' and so do our employers on 'national insurance', which pays for the national health service and the state pension. This entitles any uk citizen to free health care ( yes FREE) when they need it. It may not be the best in the world, but it is good. Very good compared to nothing! You moaning Americans need to stop whining about helping a poorer person out, yes, maybe they don't work as hard as you, or maybe they don't even deserve it. But shouldn't you still help out a needy neighbour? Of course you should, stop being selfish. If your average in the US, your still rich! Come on, be a good American!
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Enforcer3306 wrote:
But it's still not right that my tax money goes to those who refuse to get an education and won't get a job. But then again someone has to flip the patties.
Your tax money was already going toward them when they couldn't pay their hospital bills. Now a lot less of your money will be going toward that because they'll have insurance.
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president nixon wrote:
Ok well I agree that people do need the help but I think this is a bad short cut. I say get rid ofthe illegal immigrants and make it so that hospitals don't have to treat them. Because they go to hospitals for things like the flu because they get it free, illegals are the people stealing our tax dollars. Also I have only compared russia to comunist, and I'll say again. Socialist ➡ Communist ➡ Dictatorship. This is the path SOME countries have taken and we need to be careful because right now were entering that realm where we could start that cycle. Also I think a big part of the poverty in the US is that big buisness CEOs being greedy and wanting even more money and taking their buisness over seas creating a major loss in American jobs. Just throwing that out there. Ithonk we can agree on that. -
No matter which side of the debate you're on, you have to ponder the question:
Why does America pay 2X what other industrialized countries pay per person, yet still have lower life expectancy, higher infant mortality, and rank #37th in the world for health care quality?
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Can someone please explain what's so backwards about the UK, to me it seems like America is backwards on healthcare we did this years ago.
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president nixon wrote:
not true will be paying more now.Enforcer3306 wrote:
But it's still not right that my tax money goes to those who refuse to get an education and won't get a job. But then again someone has to flip the patties.
Your tax money was already going toward them when they couldn't pay their hospital bills. Now a lot less of your money will be going toward that because they'll have insurance.
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nick wrote:
I'm a little confused on what you just said Nick. I don't know If it's just because I'm tired and I'm not really putting things together much. Could you reword that.No matter which side of the debate you're on, you have to ponder the question:
Why does America pay 2X per person what other industrialized countries pay, yet still have lower life expectancy, higher infant mortality, yet rank #37th in the world for health care quality?
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RPL wrote:
Well sometimes thy does happen but that's why you get insurance. And I know the next thing your going to say too... Sometimes insurance doesn't cover everything. But why not make insurance cover it instead of pass this bill? And we won't be feeling the effects of the bill until 2014 so if it seems just fine with the bill now, it should because nothing major has changed yet.yes, I understand your sentiment, although I do think it's flawed. But the issue here really shouldn't be political or along party lines. I mean, the idea is to provide healthcare for ALL citizens of the US. I believe there was a stat that came out that stated that many personal bankruptcies were linked to healthcare costs. Really, does a person in a Country like the US really need to decide if they are going to save their life with a medical procedure and face bankruptcy/poverty OR just die??? I know that's an extreme case.
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YOU wrote:
never mind. Just drank a dr pepper and I'm awake and understanding.nick wrote:
I'm a little confused on what you just said Nick. I don't know If it's just because I'm tired and I'm not really putting things together much. Could you reword that.No matter which side of the debate you're on, you have to ponder the question:
Why does America pay 2X per person what other industrialized countries pay, yet still have lower life expectancy, higher infant mortality, yet rank #37th in the world for health care quality?
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Enforcer3306 wrote:
This is pretty much where I stand... Why cover for the people who didn't do what they were supposed to when we were doing the right thing... And I said in another post a few up about how illegals go to ERs where the doctors have to treat them... They do that on our tax money. People who are commuting a federal offense by being in our country illegaly are stealing our tax dollars. They are moochers.I do no think it's right that the upper and middle class (also refered to as the working class) have to pay taxes into this health care. It's not right that the people who worked hard to get where they are at today have to pay for the welfare junkies who won't get there lazy asses up and go get an education and a job. Now don't get me wrong I understand that there are situations where government help is needed and that not everyone on welfare is lazy or doesn't have an education but most take advantage of it.
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RPL wrote:
Well I also doubt that the canadian insurance covers what they will come over for... Or more people would do it. The fact is that people who can do it will do it. Because what we had was a good system.Yes as Enforcer said it's sorta backwards over there... Sorry. But Canada is the same way and they come to us for health care. Well not anymore that were the same... Now there isn't anywhere to go.
Actually, that's not entirely true. Yes, SOME Canadians were going to private clinics in the US to get stuff done. But they were the wealthy ones who wanted skirt the line ups. But for the general public, no one could afford what they charge over in the US.
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Enforcer3306 wrote:
I never said he was.Scroobius Pip wrote:
Abraham Lincoln wasn't a founding father. Haha wow idiot! And lincoln obviously wasn't too racist because he freed them.T Bock wrote:
T Bock the Founding Fathers were slave owners. Even Abraham Lincoln held what would be considered extremely racist views. Perhaps these were great men for their time, but not for ours. Your logic could also be used to suggest that non-whites shouldn't have the vote
He did express his belief though, that the liberated slaves would never be able to take part in society -
president nixon wrote:
All the people need to do is get insurance to afford that stuff. Also what we had before works just fine if it's done right. Sonive also said this... Remove the problems, the people who take advantage of it all.I think everyone has mixed feelings about people taking advantage of the system but if we negate the system just because of them then what are we left with?
Health care is a screwed up system that has jacked up prices on needed medicine and care. It absolutely needs to be reformed. But what so many opponents of this reform don't offer is any workable alternative.
It's not just about fluffy clouds and everyone holding hands either. Comprehensive health care is a matter of national security as well. If people could afford and then got regular check ups and could then afford the prescribed treatment things like flu epidemics would be easier to control.
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Well guys I'm done for the
night. T Bock good luck in your arguments I back you 100%. This was fun and I enjoyed hearing everyones view on the subject. I will be back on tomorrow to see how this has gone. -
bazboffer wrote:
You need to stay out of this if you are from the UK. And like you said... You havnt read the whole thing, so don't talk about it if your coming I. The middle of a conversation.I've skipped over most of the posts cos I'm lazy, but all this shit about the ussr and comunism is just an excuse for not paying for a health system. In the land of uk we pay a one % 'tax' and so do our employers on 'national insurance', which pays for the national health service and the state pension. This entitles any uk citizen to free health care. It may not be the best in the world, but it is good. Very good compared to nothing! You moaning Americans need to stop whining about helping a poorer person out, yes, maybe they don't work as hard as you, or maybe they don't even deserve it. But shouldn't you still help out a needy neighbour? Of course you should, stop being selfish. If your average in the US, your still rich! Come on, be a good American!
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