Affordable Care Act - how much did your healthcare go up?
Forums › General Discussion › Affordable Care Act - how much did your healthcare go up?-
〓ＦＡＬＬＡＣＹ〓 wrote:
We both have differing opinions. Most of what I said was opinion, the stories are fact, but the rest is my opinion. Much like what you said, opinion. Much like most of the people in this thread, opinion. I tried not to get suckered into this debate because its like Facebook lol. Opinions. Well I'm back to lurking 👀.✯ᎷᎪᎠᎠᎻᎪᎢᎢᎬᏒ✯ wrote:
......
No I don't live in a cabin, I live in one of the most populated census areas in North America. I am also in the highest tax bracket here in Canada and know very well what it's like to pay taxes to support the lower classes.
I work hard, get taxed heavily, live a modest life. I guess I just have different ideals on how society should be.
I also assumed you were American. Lol. -
MacShakn wrote:
I'd like to see you get what you get through hard work in a third world country that lacks infrastructure. No one is working to a better "you" without the help of society. Immense help at that. Where's the same concern for all the corporate. The 50 odd billion a year in welfare for the oil companies, the farm subsidies for the billion dollar companies like Monsanto, the bank/wallstreet welfare and get out of jail free passes, the ungodly waste that goes to military contracts? But no it's always about the pennies the poor get and never about the billions the billionaires get as if those people I mean companies I mean people need a hand up from the poor and middle class tax dollars.〓ＦＡＬＬＡＣＹ〓 wrote:
why isnt it called robbery when those that have are forced to give to those that haven't earned it?SOSA™ wrote:
-
*wheres the same concern for all the corporate welfare*^ why is it these debates always center around the weak rather than the powerful?
The idea that the poor and weak break the country is about as dumb as thinking the china broke itself when the bull came in the china shop. So dumb in fact, that you guys can't see the collective, historic examples out there that prove otherwise with better healthcare, better wages and reduced income disparity, and better quality of life like Canada, Germany, Australia...on and on and on. Just because you say we are the best over and over in your head, doesn't turn it into a fact. No for than say pure capitalism makes for freedom. -
★Λddi★ wrote:
Why is the debate over the pennies for the poor? Because the rich are smarter then the masses. Turn the middle class on the lower class while the rich sit back and watch.*wheres the same concern for all the corporate welfare*^ why is it these debates always center around the weak rather than the powerful?
The idea that the poor and weak break the country is about as dumb as thinking the china broke itself when the bull came in the china shop. So dumb in fact, that you guys can't see the collective, historic examples out there that prove otherwise with better healthcare, better wages and reduced income disparity, and better quality of life like Canada, Germany, Australia...on and on and on. Just because you say we are the best over and over in your head, doesn't turn it into a fact. No for than say pure capitalism makes for freedom.It's so simple it's funny.
-
Brown🎵Note😲 wrote:
To the casual observer you have wrapped everything up in a nice little bow, but you have raised more questions than you've answered. How do you believe our 'basis of morality' is different? This appears to be a thinly veiled insult. Care to elaborate? Also, how can organized society be fundamentally contrary to individual freedom while at the same time being the sole entity that facilitates it? That makes no sense. Did you mean to say that organized society facilitates certain individual freedoms while infringing on others?✂️Our basis of morality is different. ✂️
I believe that society is contrary to individual freedom, but individual freedom cannot practically exist without organized society.
We both want to balance the two opposing forces.
That is our only common ground in my opinion.
How we do it... Well. There is no perfect world.
-
I actually agree with both you Fallacy and you Addi On all those recent points. Just because my argument was in regards to the healthcare and the poorer class it is "helping". But you are right, it's all a sham. And I'm not dumb enough to think America is "the best" I actually like Canada. And I think it would be nice to live there. I actually think America is headed to an ugly place to live. But I am a homebody and partial to my family and the area I grew up.
The beautiful lie is easier to believe in than the ugly truth for most unfortunately. -
✯ᎷᎪᎠᎠᎻᎪᎢᎢᎬᏒ✯ wrote:
What about sick people who are unable to work? This system would only punish the ones who really needs healthcare.A different friends sister in law has three children with three different dads, feeds them with soda and TV dinners, yet she blows money from food stamps because now you can take money off the food stamp cards at atm's. She takes all the tax returns and blows it in a month or two, this year it was tattoos and a car, Over 10,000. She live's on government help.
The system is already broken and they are just saddling working citizens with more burden to provide for everyone.
America should have healthcare for everyone but this way is a joke. Take it out of wages and have it government ran, don't work, don't get healthcare.
The fact that you call working Americans and the Americans who pay taxes greedy?! Lol wow. -
@hillbilly. I understand all that. But there is a guy in my town who gets disabilities for his back yet has a manual labor business that he does in his wife's name. So he doesn't need disability. That's just a story how that is abused.
----My Opinion-----
I believe that there should be drug tests for most help, there should be more check-ups and follow throughout for most programs. The money it costs for these things would be (IMO) covered by the money saved in kicking the free loaders off these programs. I know it won't catch them all but last I heard (On the radio, I haven't bothered to check it) is that very few states drug test for welfare. If someone is getting free money I think they should be asked to submit to drug tests and those tests fees should be covered with money from their money.
All whimsical thinking, it won't happen. I've seen people I know get help when they are down and turn their life's around. Unfortunately from what I've seen most just nurse on the golden tit. 😔 -
✯ᎷᎪᎠᎠᎻᎪᎢᎢᎬᏒ✯ wrote:
That is a fallacy. You can't just assume that all people on disability are abusing it because you know one who is. If you don't like it, report him. They will cut it off.@hillbilly. I understand all that. But there is a guy in my town who gets disabilities for his back yet has a manual labor business that he does in his wife's name. So he doesn't need disability. That's just a story how that is abused.
-
Never knew there was a character limit. So much for my perfectly scripted rebuttal, lol.
-
Do you ever hear a politician or big buisness man say "The poor are cheating the food stamps system, THEY are taking advantage of our government!" They are trying to keep the attention focused on the poor who abuse the system. not the broken and corrupted government that allowed this mess to happen in the first place.
-
☣ 🎸ӈɪƖƖßıƖƖγ🎸☣ wrote:
I'm not saying I think all are abusing it. I'm just saying even your concern about people who need disability and how that is even being abused. I wasn't making a blanket statement that everyone falls under.✯ᎷᎪᎠᎠᎻᎪᎢᎢᎬᏒ✯ wrote:
That is a fallacy. You can't just assume that all people on disability are abusing it because you know one who is. If you don't like it, report him. They will cut it off.@hillbilly. I understand all that. But there is a guy in my town who gets disabilities for his back yet has a manual labor business that he does in his wife's name. So he doesn't need disability. That's just a story how that is abused.
-
☣ 🎸ӈɪƖƖßıƖƖγ🎸☣ wrote:
2% approximately. So he's willing to throw out the 98% that need it.✯ᎷᎪᎠᎠᎻᎪᎢᎢᎬᏒ✯ wrote:
That is a fallacy. You can't just assume that all people on disability are abusing it because you know one who is. If you don't like it, report him. They will cut it off.@hillbilly. I understand all that. But there is a guy in my town who gets disabilities for his back yet has a manual labor business that he does in his wife's name. So he doesn't need disability. That's just a story how that is abused.
-
MacShakn wrote:
Cut it in two. :PNever knew there was a character limit. So much for my perfectly scripted rebuttal, lol.
-
★Λddi★ wrote:
Yeah, but then wife told me to get off my butt. I decided to quit whining and get back to work. Nothing I say is going to change anyone anyway.MacShakn wrote:
Cut it in two. :PNever knew there was a character limit. So much for my perfectly scripted rebuttal, lol.
-
★Λddi★ wrote:
See above where you posted. I wasn't making a blanket statement. Just saying that even that is being abuse. Somehow between where you read, and what I posted you gathered your haphazard comment. But like I said. This is like a Facebook fight. Lost of petty comments and making leaps of faith and stretches in the arguments. Much like where I said one thing and even clarified it and you still think I meant what you think I meant 😒.☣ 🎸ӈɪƖƖßıƖƖγ🎸☣ wrote:
2% approximately. So he's willing to throw out the 98% that need it.✯ᎷᎪᎠᎠᎻᎪᎢᎢᎬᏒ✯ wrote:
@hillbilly. I understand all that. But there is a guy in my town who gets disabilities for his back yet has a manual labor business that he does in his wife's name. So he doesn't need disability. That's just a story how that is abused.
-
✯ᎷᎪᎠᎠᎻᎪᎢᎢᎬᏒ✯ wrote:
@hillbilly. ✂️Unfortunately from what I've seen MOST just nurse on the golden tit. 😔
This is a blanket statement. 'Most' means north of 50%. Your anecdotal estimation is off by 48%.
-
★fnord★ wrote:
From what I'VE seen. You took my comment out of context. I was saying that I know people who have used the help to get their lives back together but what I HAVE seen most want to stay on the golden tit. So it pertains to what I have seen. No percentages or anything. And that was a whole different response than I was talking to addi. Haha. You took something I said for something else to justify what addi concocted lol.✯ᎷᎪᎠᎠᎻᎪᎢᎢᎬᏒ✯ wrote:
@hillbilly. ✂️Unfortunately from what I've seen MOST just nurse on the golden tit. 😔
This is a blanket statement. 'Most' means north of 50%. Your anecdotal estimation is off by 48%.
-
✯ᎷᎪᎠᎠᎻᎪᎢᎢᎬᏒ✯ wrote:
You were lamenting earlier that people are twisting your words. I'm simply pointing out that your words speak for themselves. The word 'most' has a very unambiguous meaning.★fnord★ wrote:
From what I'VE seen. You took my comment out of context. I was saying that I know people who have used the help to get their lives back together but what I HAVE seen most want to stay on the golden tit. So it pertains to what I have seen. No percentages or anything. And that was a whole different response than I was talking to addi. Haha. You took something I said for something else to justify what addi concocted lol.✯ᎷᎪᎠᎠᎻᎪᎢᎢᎬᏒ✯ wrote:
@hillbilly. ✂️Unfortunately from what I've seen MOST just nurse on the golden tit. 😔
This is a blanket statement. 'Most' means north of 50%. Your anecdotal estimation is off by 48%.
-
With regards to your solution of drug test welfare recipients: Florida tried it a couple years ago. They actually found that a smaller percentage of welfare recipients were on drugs than the general population and the vast majority of those that tested positive were on marijuana and not hard drugs. They did not test for alcohol, which is actually more of a problem. Also, the costs of administering the drug tests ended up costing more than the savings gained from kicking drug users of the welfare rolls. All of this is immaterial though, due to the fact that the courts have banned this practice in Florida due to concerns of privacy rights. If you are really concerned about the societal costs of poverty, limiting access to programs that lift people out of poverty is the exact opposite of a realistic solution. Try looking at the root causes of poverty. Lack of education, lack of access to healthcare and lack of access to upward mobility. You're focused on the symptoms of the disease instead of the cause.
-
How does lack of access to healthcare lead to poverty? Are you saying that the middle class had no access to healthcare and that led to poverty? Middle class is paying more now...
Also, what is "lack of access to upward mobility"? -
Okay Fnord. You sure showed me lol.
-
MacShakn wrote:
Those without access to healthcare tend to put off minor health problems until they become catastrophic ones which often result in bankruptcy. In fact it is one of the leading causes of bankruptcy. Lack of upward mobility could also be called a lack of opportunity or a lack of living wage jobs in simpler terms. People have no opportunity for advancement and end up stuck in dead end jobs. This, coupled with the rising cost of higher education and cuts to GED programs keeps people in poverty and compounds societal costs. The average Walmart costs the rest of us about $900,000 to make up for their refusal to pay a living wage and provide realistic benefits.How does lack of access to healthcare lead to poverty? Are you saying that the middle class had no access to healthcare and that led to poverty? Middle class is paying more now...
Also, what is "lack of access to upward mobility"? -
YOU wrote:
But thank you for the information about Florida. That part was actually informational I was unaware of that. IF I am bored sometime I will read about it.Okay Fnord. You sure showed me lol.
-
✯ᎷᎪᎠᎠᎻᎪᎢᎢᎬᏒ✯ wrote:
No problem, i'm happy to help. On a similar note, you mentioned people getting cash from EBT cards. There are some who qualify for cash assistance which can be accessed via EBT cards, but EBT funds themselves are strictly only to be used for no-taxed grocery items and nothing else. Anyone doing so would be easily detected and lose their benefits as a result. I would also back up the person that said you should turn in the dude gaming the disability insurance as it is akin to theft.YOU wrote:
But thank you for the information about Florida. That part was actually informational I was unaware of that. IF I am bored sometime I will read about it.Okay Fnord. You sure showed me lol.
-
"People have no opportunity for advancement and end up stuck in dead end jobs"? So people don't have a choice? Is this true? I'm sure glad no one told me when I was poor and uneducated! I probably would have been okay staying that way if I had gotten comfy with some government assistance.
But I digress. Who's fault is it, how do we fix it? -
MacShakn wrote:
Do you honestly believe that the average person in poverty would pass on an opportunity to be self sufficient and successful because the pittance of government handouts is just too damned 'comfy'? Welfare encourages poverty rather than combating it? You must realize how absurd that sounds. It runs contrary to every serious study on the subject. Is this just your gut feeling or do have some facts to back it up?"People have no opportunity for advancement and end up stuck in dead end jobs"? So people don't have a choice? Is this true? I'm sure glad no one told me when I was poor and uneducated! I probably would have been okay staying that way if I had gotten comfy with some government assistance.
But I digress. Who's fault is it, how do we fix it? -
You conveniently failed to answer my questions. My point was that people DO have choices in there lot in life, regardless of environment. Why do some people want to help them take the role of being a victim?
Here are several of the choices that can keep a person out of poverty.
1. Don't abuse alcohol or drugs.
2. Graduate from high school.
3. Don't have kids before marriage.
4. If you're married, stay married.
These simple life choices have a huge impact on poverty. -
MacShakn wrote:
I thought you said you started out poor? These are the words of someone who came from privilege. 1) You realize drug and alchohol addiction is a disease and arguably hereditary, right? 2) How is a child caught in a cycle of generational poverty supposed to stay in high school when their family desperately needs them to have an income? 3) You realize many pregnancies are accidental, right? But truly the worst is number 4) Women in abusive marriages should just stick it out, god forbid the government helps them and their children escape that situation? The majority of people on TANF and SNAP are single women with children. Your ignorance of reality is astounding.✂️
Here are several of the choices that can keep a person out of poverty.
1. Don't abuse alcohol or drugs.
2. Graduate from high school.
3. Don't have kids before marriage.
4. If you're married, stay married.
These simple life choices have a huge impact on poverty. -
MacShakn wrote:
Who's fault is it, how do we fix it?
Poverty on the scale that a prosperous country like the U.S. suffers from can only be blamed on a failure of our economic system. That would be a good place to start. Worker productivity is at an all time high while inflation adjusted wages have been more or less stagnant for decades, all while the cost of living continues to climb. I suppose it would take a lot less introspection and soul searching to simply say 'people are in poverty because they're lazy and make poor choices' but the facts simply don't bear that out. Sure it's a small factor, but there are much bigger forces at play than people making poor choices. The truth is that their are simply few choices available.
![[][]](https://turfwarsapp.com/img/app/ajax-forbutton.gif)
Purchase Respect Points NEW! · Support · Turf Map · Terms · Privacy
©2021 MeanFreePath LLC