Affordable Care Act - how much did your healthcare go up?
Forums › General Discussion › Affordable Care Act - how much did your healthcare go up?-
Mr. Rickway wrote:
It goes up every year, ACA or no ACA. The increase has actually reduced since ACA partial implementation last two years though.I get healthcare through my union..they r reporting that by next year it will go up 12 percent
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ℬeƖƖɑIƗɑƖiɑɳɑ wrote:
Now now Bella, everyone is upper middle class in this country orrrr they don't work. Don't go bursting any bubbles. :P†‡†ℍøƖγ☀Ǥɧøs†‡† wrote:
Well that's somewhat offensive to someone who works their ass off, doesn't get benefits through work & can't really afford to shell out the extra for private healthcare.⌖🔥RΛINDᎧG🔥⌖ wrote:
Your so silly Raindog! The affordable part is only for people who don't work.My insurance for my kids and I went from about a fifth of my paycheck to a third....still waiting for the afforable part of this "law" to come into effect....😔😔😔
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I'd gladly spend all of your money to make sure poor people don't have to file for bankruptcy.
We save money as a collective in the long run.
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Only ones that benefit from this are the insurance companies.
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⌖🔥ཧ़ཀंེབ།༨ཛყ🔥⌖ wrote:
I agree partially, it's too bad dems didn't have the nuts to do single payer.Only ones that benefit from this are the insurance companies.
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Affordable healthcare plan is a oxymoron.
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☦ΔUGUSTIΠΣ☦ wrote:
👆Affordable healthcare plan is a oxymoron.
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We need socialist healthcare.
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☣ 🎸ӈɪƖƖßıƖƖγ🎸☣ wrote:
Since we live in a society and we are social animals that makes perfect sense.We need socialist healthcare.
Since we are free to make choices and better our individual lives through hard work and the associate reward, that doesn't make sense at all.
Since we all want free stuff that other people pay for, that makes perfect sense.
Since I can choose which risks to take to leverage my own success, that doesn't make sense at all.
If you want to redistribute wealth in a democracy, you just need to wait until most of the voters are poor and resent the fact that other people earned more.
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Brown🎵Note😲 wrote:
Lol☣ 🎸ӈɪƖƖßıƖƖγ🎸☣ wrote:
Since we live in a society and we are social animals that makes perfect sense.We need socialist healthcare.
Since we are free to make choices and better our individual lives through hard work and the associate reward, that doesn't make sense at all.
Since we all want free stuff that other people pay for, that makes perfect sense.
Since I can choose which risks to take to leverage my own success, that doesn't make sense at all.
If you want to redistribute wealth in a democracy, you just need to wait until most of the voters are poor and resent the fact that other people earned more.
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Brown🎵Note😲 wrote:
Or if everyone is mindless, rocks imbedded in place. But entrepreneurial spirit can't be crushed. Crime can't be stopped, so if we went socialist, an Criminal Entrepreneur will buy and sell stolen goods and drugs. Business owners will close because they aren't turning a profit that's big enough. Businesses will e pushed to China, for cheap labor, bam, our money is gone, only the poor people are left. And slowly the nation will be brought under. Happened in the Soviet Union, and they followed it to a "T" China's works because they aren't actually communist or socialist. The only time most people are poor is with socialism and communism.☣ 🎸ӈɪƖƖßıƖƖγ🎸☣ wrote:
✂️socialism✂️
✂️Conflicting Arguments✂️
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Capitalism and socialism can coexist within the same economy.
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☣ 🎸ӈɪƖƖßıƖƖγ🎸☣ wrote:
Not well. If you tax the upper crust heavily, they move out, and that lowers to the point where those that are taxed can't travel. Here's a little science experiment. Take a hot plate, this represents the poor. Drop an ice cube onto it. Does the plate get cold? Or does the ice just get hot. If only 1% of the population is the ice cube, and 99% is the plate, will the ice cube cool off the entire plate?Capitalism and socialism can coexist within the same economy.
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King of Chaos wrote:
It depends on how cold the ice cube is. I am certain that an ice cube that is close to absolute zero would cool down a plate easily.☣ 🎸ӈɪƖƖßıƖƖγ🎸☣ wrote:
Not well. If you tax the upper crust heavily, they move out, and that lowers to the point where those that are taxed can't travel. Here's a little science experiment. Take a hot plate, this represents the poor. Drop an ice cube onto it. Does the plate get cold? Or does the ice just get hot. If only 1% of the population is the ice cube, and 99% is the plate, will the ice cube cool off the entire plate?Capitalism and socialism can coexist within the same economy.
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YOU wrote:
Also, how big is the ice cube? Because if the size of the ice cube is relative to the dispersion of money in America, then it is a whole new ratio.King of Chaos wrote:
It depends on how cold the ice cube is. I am certain that an ice cube that is close to absolute zero would cool down a plate easily.☣ 🎸ӈɪƖƖßıƖƖγ🎸☣ wrote:
Not well. If you tax the upper crust heavily, they move out, and that lowers to the point where those that are taxed can't travel. Here's a little science experiment. Take a hot plate, this represents the poor. Drop an ice cube onto it. Does the plate get cold? Or does the ice just get hot. If only 1% of the population is the ice cube, and 99% is the plate, will the ice cube cool off the entire plate?Capitalism and socialism can coexist within the same economy.
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✯ᎷᎪᎠᎠᎻᎪᎢᎢᎬᏒ✯ wrote:
Brown🎵Note😲 wrote:
Lol☣ 🎸ӈɪƖƖßıƖƖγ🎸☣ wrote:
Since we live in a society and we are social animals that makes perfect sense.We need socialist healthcare.
Since we are free to make choices and better our individual lives through hard work and the associate reward, that doesn't make sense at all.
Since we all want free stuff that other people pay for, that makes perfect sense.
Since I can choose which risks to take to leverage my own success, that doesn't make sense at all.
If you want to redistribute wealth in a democracy, you just need to wait until most of the voters are poor and resent the fact that other people earned more.
Nooo! Don't go into the light!
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Our insurance premiums have not gone up. However, our company has informed us that we are welcome to look into the new healthcare plan that is available to everyone, but that since we have a job it might not be an option.
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Framing this argument as socialism vs. capitalism is pretty silly. Hillbilly is right, they can and do coexist and have in America since it's founding. Capitalism could not exist without the infrastructure and shared risk and responsibility that socialism provides. Socialism can not exist without a tax base, which many argue is maximized by a capitalist economy. Arguing in polarized absolutes as many here do is the mark of someone who obviously doesn't understand our history.
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On another note, I think with any healthcare plan it is the insurance companies that are the benefits. Take our current one as an example:
We pay $250 per paycheck (26 per year) to have medical insurance. Our insurance has "negotiated" with our providers a price we pay for services (a very small discount). Every year we are expected to pay $3500 out of pocket on those negotiated rates (this includes prescriptions). Once we hit that amount, then insurance splits the bill with us. We still end up paying between 20-75%. When and if we hit $7000 out of pocket then insurance pays 100%. But, oh wait... It's Dec 31... Start over!!!
I have a daughter with ADHD, a son with asthma, another daughter who has depression and requires Botox injections to manage migraines and I have sleep apnea... We hit $3500 in 7 weeks!! -
Now, on a third note.... While we were without insurance for a month I called our doctors and asked how much for self pay... So you know they charge less (some a lot less) if you pay and they don't have to deal with insurance companies???
Moral of this story? I almost think healthcare costs would reduce significantly if we got rid of the insurance companies. (And of course those sure happy people that cause the doctors insurance premiums to be so high... But that's another topic). -
Oops.. That should read "sue happy people" not sure
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☣ 🎸ӈɪƖƖßıƖƖγ🎸☣ wrote:
Like they do in every first world country you mean? Or how about our military?Capitalism and socialism can coexist within the same economy.
And really jobs will be sent to china for low wages chaos? You mean like they already have because we don't have tariffs or Vat tax to keep them here?
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Matgie wrote:
But then people won't have the freedom to pull themselves up by their bootstraps! Hardy har har. Lol this is America. We live like Jesus did, money first.Now, on a third note.... While we were without insurance for a month I called our doctors and asked how much for self pay... So you know they charge less (some a lot less) if you pay and they don't have to deal with insurance companies???
Moral of this story? I almost think healthcare costs would reduce significantly if we got rid of the insurance companies. (And of course those sure happy people that cause the doctors insurance premiums to be so high... But that's another topic). -
Nobody is talking absolutes. We just don't necessarily want to move our freedom slider in your personally ignorant preferred direction.
This isn't conservative vs. progressive. It's individual rights and freedoms vs. "Wouldn't it be cool if the successful ones were forced to give up their private property so the unsuccessful ones had no discomfort?"
Yes, there's a balance. But you people want to continually fuck with it until we hit Utopia.
Why not go after the $16T credit card? Why do we get behind these asshole political talking points ON BOTH SIDES?
Stop being a joiner and go independent. Just like everyone else.
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★Λddi★ wrote: But then people won't have the freedom to pull themselves up by their bootstraps! Hardy har har. Lol this is America. We live like Jesus did, money first.
The Jesus model is Utopia. Jesus was a socialist liberal (monarchist). Why don't you guys reclaim him? He puts society above his own personal freedom, he requires us to give everything to the poor, he loves free leper health care... It's uncanny.Let the personal freedom crowd be pro-choice for a change.
I hereby form a new political party! The MYOFB™ party.
No wait... They already have that one. Dang.
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Brown🎵Note😲 wrote:
Freedom slider, lol. Is that like the Laffer curve? This is precisely the kind of a absolutist argument I was talking about. A 'freedom slider' implies that social welfare and some vague concept of 'freedom' are inversely proportional. I disagree. It's much more nuanced than that, and could easily be argued that promoting the general welfare actually promotes 'freedom'. The rest of your comment is a poorly constructed strawman peppered with false dilemmas and thus is not worth addressing.Nobody is talking absolutes. We just don't necessarily want to move our freedom slider in your personally ignorant preferred direction.
This isn't conservative vs. progressive. It's individual rights and freedoms vs. "Wouldn't it be cool if the successful ones were forced to give up their private property✂️
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Do you have a right to keep what you earn and create or not?
What is the limit of coerced confiscation that you think is appropriate?
It's a necessary evil to confiscate private property for the collective good.
What's the limit? How much is fair? 20%? 30%? Give me a number.
Otherwise, I think you are just spewing ideological vomit without really knowing what is required of us. All you can say is "more more more", but you don't seem to know exactly why more is required, or exactly how much more.
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(Now throw out the fallacy fallacy.). I know you rely on that.
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Now let's pretend we decide 30% is fair. Your government will now spend twice that, half on wishes and dreams that you don't want.
Then they will need more. And more. And more.
I say we should spend more time figuring out how to solve the impossible problem of political committees with mixed ideals and short term selfish goals figuring out how to spend as much of our money as they can, while pretending they want to spend less and spend smart.
Best case, we can hamstring their efforts. The machine is imperfect and dysfunctional. Real change is required, and taxing and spending more is not change.
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Our family income is decent (above poverty level) and I have no problem paying a little but higher in taxes than someone who brings home half of what we do (below poverty level) so that we both can afford healthcare.
I do not think there is a set percent that everyone should pay. THen again, I don't feel anyone should be having to survive with a household income below the poverty level.
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