Assisted Suicide/Voluntary Euthanasia
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El Chubaneebre wrote:
That is an excellent question. Surely there is a pain threshold test that can measure pain. A certain pain level, accompanied by prognosis and history of the given affliction could help set the precedent for euthanasia.Pain seems to be the primary motivation for euthanasia here, how do you define the level of pain given different tolerances? How do you propose the desision is to end a life is made and by whom? In a litigious society how will the desision makers be protected? Euthanasia seems a reasonable solution at times but would be practically impossible to legislate for.
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@ Nate. I fell 3 stories and broke my back. 3 months in a hospital and an additional 6 months of therapy learning to walk. My pain will never go away.
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How do you prevent pressure (perceived or otherwise) from entering into the equation?
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Yes of course. Everything comes down to controlling others in society. When it comes to personal choices those in power have no right. That is all.
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Jeff 🍆 Newton wrote:
You don't see the difference? Suicide/Assisted is a personal choice. Murdering innocent children does not play into those innocent children's personal choice.We should just bomb the local orphanages. They suffer enough already.
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Personal choice must also have boundaries. People are in power to decide on those boundaries and to prevent them being crossed.
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El Chubaneebre wrote:
Idk. A person should have total control over their lifePersonal choice must also have boundaries. People are in power to decide on those boundaries and to prevent them being crossed.
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El Chubaneebre wrote:
Really? I had no idea. Talk to me when you are diagnosed with chronic pain and certain to die. Sure there's miracles blah blah blah blah...but mostly there's not. It's a personal choice that doesn't harm anyone therefore the religious has no right. Period.Personal choice must also have boundaries. People are in power to decide on those boundaries and to prevent them being crossed.
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⌖🔥Belial🔥⌖ wrote:
Haha young? I know you know my age but you give me too little credit. Like I told everyone in the room before, I've had enough tragedy to last me a few lifetimes. So what opinions will change? My devotion to my friends? I may be naive when I say this, but I trust them. And they're worth it to me. If for only one of them, I would keep fighting. So what's left? My fighting spirit and my belief in miracles. Well I tell you they do happen. A guy survives for over 90 minutes in sub freezing temperature water. People who are clinically dead come back to life. These aren't myths.ՏhadowA͜ngelƊ. wrote:
You're very young. Your opinion changes as you get oldersnip.
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Λdོdོi wrote:
AgreedEl Chubaneebre wrote:
Really? I had no idea. Talk to me when you are diagnosed with chronic pain and certain to die. Sure there's miracles blah blah blah blah...but mostly there's not. It's a personal choice that doesn't harm anyone therefore the religious has no right. Period.Personal choice must also have boundaries. People are in power to decide on those boundaries and to prevent them being crossed.
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@addi 'that doesn't harm anyone' - boundaries
@belial smoking isn't illegal yet passive smoking kills, who's life has precedence? We simply don't have control over our own lives.
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Amish Hitman wrote:
I understand that. And that has never been my point. If you want off yourself later on then by all means do it. Your choice. My point is that pain medication does work for the majority and that miracles do in fact happen regularly. Do what you want.@ Nate. I fell 3 stories and broke my back. 3 months in a hospital and an additional 6 months of therapy learning to walk. My pain will never go away.
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⌖🔥Belial🔥⌖ wrote:
Religious right has no right*Λdོdོi wrote:
AgreedEl Chubaneebre wrote:
Really? I had no idea. Talk to me when you are diagnosed with chronic pain and certain to die. Sure there's miracles blah blah blah blah...but mostly there's not. It's a personal choice that doesn't harm anyone therefore the religious has no right. Period.Personal choice must also have boundaries. People are in power to decide on those boundaries and to prevent them being crossed.
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El Chubaneebre wrote:
Hardly a rebuttal.@addi 'that doesn't harm anyone' - boundaries
@belial smoking isn't illegal yet passive smoking kills, who's life has precedence? We simply don't have control over our own lives.
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Λdོdོi wrote:
Sigh.........Addi. It's not a religious right thing. Quit beating the religiously dead horse. Find a new angle for crying out loud. Not everything is about religion. There are plenty of people on both sides of this issue who are not religious.El Chubaneebre wrote:
Hardly a rebuttal.@addi 'that doesn't harm anyone' - boundaries
@belial smoking isn't illegal yet passive smoking kills, who's life has precedence? We simply don't have control over our own lives.
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@addi, you seem to be under the impression that I am religious? I'm afraid I'm not. My argument stems from the difficulties of legislating for euthanasia. And as you have pointed out in your own post that there are miracles. Can you tell when one will happen. This is certainly not a debate to lose your cool in.
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El Chubaneebre wrote:
Thing is people's welfare are at stake. They shouldn't be left to suffer because it's difficult to legislate.@addi, you seem to be under the impression that I am religious? I'm afraid I'm not. My argument stems from the difficulties of legislating for euthanasia. And as you have pointed out in your own post that there are miracles. Can you tell when one will happen. This is certainly not a debate to lose your cool in.
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But how will you determine the criteria without legislation?
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El Chubaneebre wrote:
The answer is simple. You can't. The conundrum is that government wants to regulate everything and the governed want to be able to do whatever they wish with no consequence. You don't have to be a rocket scientist to figure that out the system is flawed.But how will you determine the criteria without legislation?
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El Chubaneebre wrote:
Let the person decide for themselves. Everyone should have power over their own livesBut how will you determine the criteria without legislation?
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YOU wrote:
I offered this solution. What do y'all think of that?El Chubaneebre wrote:
That is an excellent question. Surely there is a pain threshold test that can measure pain. A certain pain level, accompanied by prognosis and history of the given affliction could help set the precedent for euthanasia.Pain seems to be the primary motivation for euthanasia here, how do you define the level of pain given different tolerances? How do you propose the desision is to end a life is made and by whom? In a litigious society how will the desision makers be protected? Euthanasia seems a reasonable solution at times but would be practically impossible to legislate for.
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⌖🔥Belial🔥⌖ wrote:
Going with the 'it's your life to do with as you wish' bent, people commit suicide for a number of reasons are you also arguing that it is their right as it is their own life?El Chubaneebre wrote:
Let the person decide for themselves. Everyone should have power over their own livesBut how will you determine the criteria without legislation?
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🔥⌖Nate😲Dogg🔥⌖ wrote:
I have my opinion just like you have your opinion about pain killers working on all pain- laughable. Lol Please, Nate, you should no better than to try to tell me not to express my opinion by now.Λdོdོi wrote:
Sigh.........Addi. It's not a religious right thing. Quit beating the religiously dead horse. Find a new angle for crying out loud. Not everything is about religion. There are plenty of people on both sides of this issue who are not religious.El Chubaneebre wrote:
Hardly a rebuttal.@addi 'that doesn't harm anyone' - boundaries
@belial smoking isn't illegal yet passive smoking kills, who's life has precedence? We simply don't have control over our own lives.
It simply does come from a religious perspective. Deep inseeded in all of us not to take our own lives. Deny it all you want.
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El Chubaneebre wrote:
Yes, I can estimate. 1 in a billion. My grandmother happens to be one of those miracles -- defeated lupus, an incurrable disease. And that was her choice, to fight and to believe so whole heartidly that she would be healed by God. There's not a moment that goes by that I don't admire her.@addi, you seem to be under the impression that I am religious? I'm afraid I'm not. My argument stems from the difficulties of legislating for euthanasia...
Everyone is different though. And why i get a bit worked up about this issue is because I retain a great deal of empathy for those that suffer. I'll be damned if I would presume to know what they can and can not handle. The gule of people that do - well, I just don't agree. I believe in basic human rights. One being in control of your own person as long as it doesn't infringe on someone else's basic human rights.
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YOU wrote:
Addi, obviously you didn't bother to read this. If you had you would have seen that I agreed that it's your choice to committ suicide and that medication works on the majority. Not once did I say all. Please pay attention before informing me of what I said. Of course your entitled to state your opinion. Never have I suppressed another's right to free speech. Not once.Amish Hitman wrote:
I understand that. And that has never been my point. If you want off yourself later on then by all means do it. Your choice. My point is that pain medication does work for the majority and that miracles do in fact happen regularly. Do what you want.@ Nate. I fell 3 stories and broke my back. 3 months in a hospital and an additional 6 months of therapy learning to walk. My pain will never go away.
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👆👆👆I love you...
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As far as legislation goes you are introducing loopholes. Does control of your own person include the right of suicide for any reason? Am I able to decide for another person that cannot communicate that it is time for them to go? Euthanasia is not just a matter if saying 'yep, I like it lets do it'. The procedure you are advocating is irreversible.
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🔥⌖Nate😲Dogg🔥⌖ wrote:
Go back and read what you said to me. Maybe you'll understand why you angered me. Had nothing to do with what you believe or don't believe.YOU wrote:
Addi, obviously you didn't bother to read this. If you had you would have seen that I agreed that it's your choice to committ suicide and that medication works on the majority. Not once did I say all. Please pay attention before informing me of what I said. Of course your entitled to state your opinion. Never have I suppressed another's right to free speech. Not once.Amish Hitman wrote:
I understand that. And that has never been my point. If you want off yourself later on then by all means do it. Your choice.t.@ Nate. I fell 3 stories and broke my back. 3 months in a hospital and an additional 6 months of therapy learning to walk. My pain will never go away.
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Assisted suicide should be limited to terminal illness in the last stages when quality of life is sharply reduced. A simple addition to a will would solve the last scenario. Just an addition to a durable power of attorney would suffice.
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In midevil times soldiers chose death for several reasons to die with honor and not be sent back as an extra cost now adays we have choices and I feel the wounded person or the closest family member should have that choice not be governed as it is a personal matter for the family not a judge or jury should have a say
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