BUSH🌳 vs CLINTON❓
Forums › General Discussion › BUSH🌳 vs CLINTON❓-
Vote for your guy and do your best to make your own tiny contribution for the betterment of politics. Or maybe run for office or work for an agency and do your tiny part that way. Either way, the machine will roll on and the game will continue. There will always be the same debates raging on and we will always, ALWAYS, be sliding down towards collapse or 1984 in someone's point of view, or worse yet we are always one perfect president away from Utopia to others.
There's no point in making the veins pop out of our necks over it. Life's way too short.
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≣☰〓CRͣAͩCͩKA〓☰≣ wrote:
So he's this electoral season's Ron Paul just wearing a D versus an R?*do far = so far
In general tho, Bernie Sanders has had 30 years in political office, has kept the same stance the entire time, is very respected on both sides of the political fence (dem/rep), is one if the few candidates working primarily for the middle class, the only candidate who refuses billionaire money and superpacs, relying and preaching about public-funded elections and removing big money's influence in elections, I can go on and on but jv think I'm out of words to use for forum use lol -
★★BЯOШИИOTΞ★★ wrote:
Not everything has to be an argument. Respect the next persons views/opinions instead of bashing everyone who doesn't agree with you. The way you come at people makes me think you are afraid of something. Perhaps you fear the truth because it contradicts the lie you live..jimmy big-balls wrote: resurrecting Reagan's disastrous trickle down Great Recession, etc. That good enough for starters, skippy?
Just admit what you said was wrong and move on. You haven't said why he was the worst president in U.S. history. All you have said is you disagree with his policies. Tell us why he was worse than James K. Polk or Teddy Roosevelt. You have no fucking clue what you are saying, other than you hate Bush Jr. If you wanna argue with the big boys, you need to back up what you say. -
Just admit what you said was wrong and move on. You haven't said why he was the worst president in U.S. history. All you have said is you disagree with his policies. Tell us why he was worse than James K. Polk or Teddy Roosevelt. You have no fucking clue what you are saying, other than you hate Bush Jr. If you wanna argue with the big boys, you need to back up what you say.
Not everything has to be an argument. Respect the next persons views/opinions instead of bashing everyone who doesn't agree with you. The way you come at people makes me think you are afraid of something. Perhaps you fear the truth because it contradicts the lie you live..
I think Brownnote was correct JBB stated opinions, there was no real evidence of Dubya being the absolute worst president ever. -
★★BЯOШИИOTΞ★★ wrote: Just admit what you said was wrong and move on. You haven't said why he was the worst president in U.S. history. All you have said is you disagree with his policies. Tell us why he was worse than James K. Polk or Teddy Roosevelt. You have no fucking clue what you are saying, other than you hate Bush Jr. If you wanna argue with the big boys, you need to back up what you say.
I hate to be the one to piss in your Cheerios, but you aren't one of 'the big boys', so run along. The adults are talking. Also, who in the blue hell claims that Teddy (or even Franklin) Roosevelt was a bad president? -
jimmy big-balls wrote:
Ohoho, you done fucked up now.★★BЯOШИИOTΞ★★ wrote: Just admit what you said was wrong and move on. You haven't said why he was the worst president in U.S. history. All you have said is you disagree with his policies. Tell us why he was worse than James K. Polk or Teddy Roosevelt. You have no fucking clue what you are saying, other than you hate Bush Jr. If you wanna argue with the big boys, you need to back up what you say.
I hate to be the one to piss in your Cheerios, but you aren't one of 'the big boys', so run along. The adults are talking. -
ｎｅｘｘ🎲ᵑᵒᵐᵅᵈ༤ wrote:
Yeah his mob stat might only be 400 or so, but let me tell yeah from experience those stars, come with a serious punch.jimmy big-balls wrote:
Ohoho, you done fucked up now.★★BЯOШИИOTΞ★★ wrote: Just admit what you said was wrong and move on. You haven't said why he was the worst president in U.S. history. All you have said is you disagree with his policies. Tell us why he was worse than James K. Polk or Teddy Roosevelt. You have no fucking clue what you are saying, other than you hate Bush Jr. If you wanna argue with the big boys, you need to back up what you say.
I hate to be the one to piss in your Cheerios, but you aren't one of 'the big boys', so run along. The adults are talking. -
Jimmy, this isn't my first rodeo here. I really dread playing the "who the fuck are you" game because it always takes so long and tends to get personal.
Just put your "fucktard"-"Sean Hannity" assumptions away and let's have a simple discussion.
You stated opinion as fact.
You refuse to admit it when called out on it.
Done.
My perception of you is as some angry little political wonk that thinks there are only two worlds of thought in American politics. You automatically assume you are solid in team A, and everyone that disagrees with you must be an idiot from team B.
This is just my assumption based on your hyperbole, and the private comment attempting to threaten me into accepting your superiority.
The truth is, you are at a disadvantage when you guess with declarative statements.
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I'm pulling from Wikipedia here, so forgive me... But it seems that
Millard Filmore
William Henry Harrison
Franklin Pierce
Andrew Johnson
James Buchanan
And Warren G. Harding...were all ranked worse than Bush Jr. in the aggregate of 7 scholarly opinion surveys which ranked US Presidents in terms of greatness. Of course 11 prominent opinion surveys are also in this aggregate that were before his time.
Even with all their concern for "official" metrics, it still boils down to nothing more than an opinion survey of people that didn't experience the first 36 presidents first hand.
So no, by ANY definition or bias, he is not the worst president in U.S. History.
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Of course if you separate the results by the political affiliation of the respondents, Bush Jr. rates much higher among conservatives, but he's still not in the bottom 5 for those respondents that identify as "liberal".
That is very significant. I would argue that the results are already biased against conservative presidents simply because the respondents are academics. "Academics" represent a small minority of us that have a different perspective on politics than the working class, and therefore often go against popular opinion.
Not in your case, Jimmy boy. You are more biased than our learned professors, it seems.
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"I would argue that the results are already biased against conservative presidents simply because the respondents are academics."
Brown Note – while that sounds plausible I would argue that the trajectory of US history has always been on a progressive track. It's just that conservatives take time to catch up.
Case in point– Bernie Sanders- self-declared 'socialist' (in the limited American understanding of the term) has been around a long time. The fact that he is even on the radar as a potential presidential candidate points directly to our progressive arc.
In time- marijuana will be legalized- same sex marriage will be legalized- alternative energy will predominate- and many more progressive issues will have their day.
If not the next 20 years- then maybe after that- but it's coming regardless of conservative heel digging.
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🔥💩 wrote:
👆what he said👍👊ｎｅｘｘ🎲ᵑᵒᵐᵅᵈ༤ wrote:
Yeah his mob stat might only be 400 or so, but let me tell yeah from experience those stars, come with a serious punch.jimmy big-balls wrote:
Ohoho, you done fucked up now.★★BЯOШИИOTΞ★★ wrote: Just admit what you said was wrong and move on. You haven't said why he was the worst president in U.S. history. All you have said is you disagree with his policies. Tell us why he was worse than James K. Polk or Teddy Roosevelt. You have no fucking clue what you are saying, other than you hate Bush Jr. If you wanna argue with the big boys, you need to back up what you say.
I hate to be the one to piss in your Cheerios, but you aren't one of 'the big boys', so run along. The adults are talking. -
And Trump threw in his bid...smh...being a conservative shouldn't be a joke but those running as "conservatives" are just that jokes.
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💔Śταggεг Łεε🔫 wrote:
I think I'm missing the connection here. What does this have to do with Brown Note's comment?"I would argue that the results are already biased against conservative presidents simply because the respondents are academics."
Brown Note – while that sounds plausible I would argue that the trajectory of US history has always been on a progressive track. It's just that conservatives take time to catch up.
Case in point– Bernie Sanders- self-declared 'socialist' (in the limited American understanding of the term) has been around a long time. The fact that he is even on the radar as a potential presidential candidate points directly to our progressive arc.✂️
If not the next 20 years- then maybe after that- but it's coming regardless of conservative heel digging.
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@Carpenter "I think I'm missing the connection here. What does this have to do with Brown Note's comment?"
The top quote is his. I've heard the argument before that academics tend towards a more progressive view-and that may be true on the whole-however I think it's bigger than that, and that over time given US history and our progressive track, what is considered 'biased' and liberal today will most likely be moot in the future.
I.E Historically conservatives were against Voting Rights, Civil Rights, Abortion, Social Security, Minimum Wages, and many other progressive causes that have not only come pass- but here to stay. There reversals are inconceivable by the majority of Americans.
What was liberal yesterday is now the norm and that will probably be the case in the way history judges some of our most conservative presidents like Bush and his very hawkish /conservative stance on many issues.
But that's MHO.
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How about neither? BERNIE SANDERS 2016 , change in the right direction !
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I think you need to research the history of conservatism, and also the history of the word "liberal". Modern political parties have flipped back and forth from their roots over the years. What a conservative is today is what a democrat used to be. The issues of the day such as you listed above are neither democratic nor republican issues. They are issues of policy and morality.
Democratic principals lean toward direct mob rule.
Republican principals lean toward representative "aristocratic" rule-making with public oversight.
The rest it political fodder eaten up by the public and fed to us by the wonks.
Do you believe in more direct democracy, or tempered democracy by elite representatives?
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Voting rights means what? Equal opportunity among all citizens in the voting booth? I'm all for it.
Civil Rights? It's the law. Conservatives love the letter of the law. Equal opportunity is a conservative corner stone. Color blindness is my dream society.
Abortion? I'm pro baby murder.
Social security? Meh. It could have been done better, but we definitely need it.
Minimum wages, BAH. Economic stupidity is neither progressive nor conservative; neither democratic nor republican.
I say: Let's approach government scientifically rather than ideologically for a change. Let's make our citizens more smarterer.
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The words progressive and conservative mean exactly what they mean. And I mean them as such.
Progressive: an individual interested in forward development of civilization that includes human rights and economics.
Conservative: an individual interested in maintaining the status quo of human rights and economics.
You are correct. Some of our terms such as Democrat and Republican have flipped throughout our history.
Labeling aside though- we're still mentally either a conservative or progressive. As of now, history is on the side of progressivism. Currently progressivism is labeled as liberal.
As for all the issues I've cited as being a part of the progressive cause, there was in fact intense opposition from those with conservative mindsets.
That is historical fact.
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I wholly agree with you. We should approach our democracy in the most scientifically minded fashion that we can. I am all for stem cells as well as a host of other rationally minded causes and for leaving religion out of the political arena.
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Bush,Clinton and Trump walk into a bar.
I wish this was a joke 😂😂😞😞 -
☠ðůﾅ⌖ʟḁẘ☠ wrote:
Clinton, Trump and Bush all walk into a bar with a toads on their heads. What the hell are those things?’ asks the barman. The toads all reply in unison, ‘I don’t know – it started as a wart on my ass and grew.’🐸🐸🐸Bush,Clinton and Trump walk into a bar.
I wish this was a joke 😂😂😞😞 -
💔Śταggεг Łεε🔫 wrote:
We don't live in a democracy, and politics is not a two dimensional line. You have chosen progressive/conservative as your metric. What about democrat/republican, anarchist/totalitarian, individualist/collectivist, free market/communism, proletariat/capitalist, environmentalist/progressive...?I wholly agree with you. We should approach our democracy in the most scientifically minded fashion that we can. I am all for stem cells as well as a host of other rationally minded causes and for leaving religion out of the political arena.
STEM CELLS?!?? That's not a democrat/republican issue!
I mean POLITICAL science! Good grief!
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I guess that's what I mean by wonks and those that follow them.
You are not really a progressive.
You seem on the secular side of theocrat/secularist.
I say again, this is not a democracy, and you have been programmed into a two party system with made-up "issues" to divide them. The names "democrat" and "republican" have always meant the same thing, but it's the unrelated issues that have swished back an forth between parties.
I think I'll vote for the isolationist party this time around. Those damn globalists are ruining this country! Heheheh..
So now what? Is this the two party system the best way to do politics?
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jimmy big-balls wrote:
Hillary wouldn't be my first choice, but having the worst president in U.S. history as your brother should be an automatic disqualifier.
Obamas brother is running????
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Because I suck at quoting I'll just say this: technically the American Government system is a Constitutional based Democratic Republic. Meaning some thing the individual citizen gets direct say, but many things we do not. But because we allow lobbyists, and corporations that have many many billions collectively and are now viewed in the eyes of our elected officials as individuals, what we really have now is an Oligarchy. Until we wake up as a whole and demand that corporations do not get access to our political leaders in ways that an individual cannot then nothing changes. The two party system is smoke and mirrors.
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The 2 party system is the problem. People blindly vote along party lines, and have been doing so for generations. Instead of wasting any time thinking about politics, instead think about investing in the corporations that run the country anyway. Cant beat em, join em... While America is no longer the power we once were, we are still powerful, plus this is absolutely still the land of opportunity. Go get your shares up and then leave the country for someplace better goverened, someplace that has a higher quality of life, that actually takes care of its citizens. Forget your nationalism and be a sovereign individual.
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٩لhشį≪ظę٩سį+į∿ف wrote:
You had me right up until the end. I do love this country even with all the flaws. I like to visit out her countries, but haven't found one that I want to live in.The 2 party system is the problem. People blindly vote along party lines, and have been doing so for generations. Instead of wasting any time thinking about politics, instead think about investing in the corporations that run the country anyway. Cant beat em, join em... While America is no longer the power we once were, we are still powerful, plus this is absolutely still the land of opportunity. Go get your shares up and then leave the country for someplace better goverened, someplace that has a higher quality of life, that actually takes care of its citizens. Forget your nationalism and be a sovereign individual.
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💔Śταggεг Łεε🔫 wrote:
😂😂😂🍺👍☠ðůﾅ⌖ʟḁẘ☠ wrote:
Clinton, Trump and Bush all walk into a bar with a toads on their heads. What the hell are those things?’ asks the barman. The toads all reply in unison, ‘I don’t know – it started as a wart on my ass and grew.’🐸🐸🐸Bush,Clinton and Trump walk into a bar.
I wish this was a joke 😂😂😞😞 -
Ӈཪ༱عɗ☠ᏩᎧེ͜Ꭷེℵ wrote:
💔Śταggεг Łεε🔫 wrote:
😂😂😂🍺👍☠ðůﾅ⌖ʟḁẘ☠ wrote:
Clinton, Trump and Bush all walk into a bar with a toads on their heads. What the hell are those things?’ asks the barman. The toads all reply in unison, ‘I don’t know – it started as a wart on my ass and grew.’🐸🐸🐸Bush,Clinton and Trump walk into a bar.
I wish this was a joke 😂😂😞😞
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