Affordable Care Act - how much did your healthcare go up?
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Why do you two pick and prod over a point I made that would be a huge tax break for me?
So make it 10%. Who gives a shit what it is? Back pedaling?? Lol... You guys just have a warped perspective.
Our MORALITY is different. You insist on denying the moral philosophy that was used to write and sell the Declaration of Independence and the constitution.
Your only argument can be: "Well, it says that... But the intent was really abolishing private property rights and letting the government get really really huge."
Just admit that your morality is new and different than what we were founded as. You don't believe in sacred individual liberty, you see no harm in a government that controls your life, and you don't see a problem with a democracy of selfish humans.
Your answer is more and bigger. Mine isn't. You will eventually lose control with these policies. You feel safe. Ignorance is bliss.
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Tax cuts for the rich! That's rich! You can never again accuse someone for parroting talking points without hypocrisy.
I know you BELIEVE what you are saying. That's why arguing with you is almost pointless.
You can't take off your false partisan blinders.
Maybe explain to us why you think the nature of man according to 17th century western philosophy is wrong. Explain where Jefferson went wrong. Explain why no matter how abstract I argue, I'm wrong and you are right.
I'm not a republican or a democrat. Forget me. Just explain why *you* want to change our founding principles.
I think the argument itself is making you dig in and stop thinking. Making you defensive and pig-headed.
Find a way to fix our problems while maintaining freedom, and I'll listen. I promise.
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MURICA!!
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@Brown
I'm sorry, is there an actual point in that emotional screed somewhere? Again, show me the evidence that this country was founded on the principles of specific fiduciary limits to the expenditures of the federal government relative to the size of it's population and the market externalities it must absorb. If it's merely your opinion then just say so. Presenting it as basic fact with zero evidence is exactly what you accused me of. I can give you multiple examples of actual federal wealth redistribution occurring while many of the founders were still alive. Where is this supposed commandment against wealth redistribution in our laws? Did you know that George Washington founded, with federal dollars, a comprehensive retirement program for retired merchant mariners? I have real evidence, what do you have? The Austrian school? You like Thomas Paine, eh? Have you read Agrarian Justice? I like the part where he says every person should be guaranteed a living wage. -
Brown🎵Note😲 wrote:
Find a way to fix our problems while maintaining freedom, and I'll listen. I promise.
That's easy. Large import tariffs, full public financing of federal elections with an end to all corporate lobbying, and forcing all corporations to pay for the true costs of their own market externalities rather than foisting them on the taxpayers. Income taxes for all workers would be zero and thus (lol) the 17th century natural property rights of men (and women?) would once again be restored.
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Brown🎵Note😲 wrote:
Thank you for reminding me not to take you seriously, Brown. So in point you have no solutions, just pretty webs of words that you hope no one will investigate and hypothetically put in to practice. You were the one that obtusely suggested it. Don't blame us for taking you literally. Try to say something real next time you speak if you are capable of it and stop being a wanker. See I can name call too:)Why do you two pick and prod over a point I made that would be a huge tax break for me?
So make it 10%. Who gives a shit what it is? Back pedaling?? Lol... You guys just have a warped perspective.
Our MORALITY is different. You insist on denying the moral philosophy that was used to write and sell the Declaration of Independence and the constitution.
Your only argument can be: "Well, it says that... But the intent was really abolishing private property rights and letting the.."
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Or how about the Poor House Washington also founded as well? Damn first president making safety nets! How dare he.
A lot of politics are based in opinion yes - especially for those that have given up trying to be a part of the solution. But what people like you forget to acknowledge is fact plays a real role as well. Fact based in history of society and events and practices around the world. Basing your arguments around schools of thought fully unpracticed is juvenile at best.
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Easy solution? Don't be sick. Another word of wisdom from the Wolfe brothers... You're welcome.
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What healthcare?
😂😂😂😂 -
@Brown,
Since you seem so fond of childishly projecting motives onto people you disagree with, let me go ahead and return the favor and psychoanalyze you:
Earlier you said "I can choose which risks to take to leverage my own success." This of course is the ultimate hubris, the idea that you are in control. Deep down you realize that you, just like the rest of us, are one catastrophic event away from becoming that which you despise most, a ward. The SS rolls are full of broken down old fools who were twice as prepared as you believe you are and used to think exactly like you. So you cling to your religion in the hollow hope that it will give you salvation. Much like a religious fanatic, you find comfort in your orthodoxy and dogma despite all evidence to the contrary. You see your religion in everything and everything in it. Your prophets are infallible, despite all their personal failings...
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...
You recoil in bewilderment at the thought that someone like me who shares your spirituality happens to reject your orthodoxy. You never really explain yourself beyond repeating rehearsed and long-ingrained incantations. Phrases like 'sacred individual freedoms' hove list all meaning from years of repetition. Most of all, you claim that all those who reject your dogma are somehow less moral than some pious projection of yourself. Yours is the one true faith, all others are infidels. I'm guessing at the root of all of this piety is a secret shame. Perhaps a past better forgotten, one in which you were the recipient of government largess. Who knows? You would never admit it to yourself, let alone me. -
★fnord★ wrote:
...
You recoil in bewilderment at the thought that someone like me who shares your spirituality happens to reject your orthodoxy. ✂️✂️ I'm guessing at the root of all of this piety is a secret shame. Perhaps a past better forgotten, one in which you were the recipient of government largess. Who knows? You would never admit it to yourself, let alone me.👃👈
I generally avoid the forums but I was lurkin some and I happen to know you're right from my personal relationship with Brown.... Awfully self righteous for a man that used government assistance when he was just starting out with an unplanned kiddo, huh, BN? -
If this was for the right reason I'd be all for it..... But untill you read the bill, you would see how illegal it is. Please read all 1500 pages. You won't like what you read if you believe in the Constitution.
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Only one U.S president was able to pay off the nations debt around 1830 and that was Andrew Jackson. How did he do it? Simple... he abolished the 'Central Bank' as it was known back in those days. Today we know it as the Federal Reserve. The debt will never be paid off because we continue to put our well being in the hands of puppets. Obama talked about 'change'... And sure, I see change... But it isn't a change for the better. Lets be honest, who can we trust to make the right decisions in our government? I know one thing, it wont be the next president or the president after that.
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Treezor wrote:
MURICA!!
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Thomas Jefferson on wealth redistribution and progressive taxation. Notice the adversarial relationship he asserts between property LAWS and natural RIGHTS:
"It should seem then that it must be because of the enormous wealth, which places them above attention to the increase of their revenues, that I am conscious that an equal division of property is impracticable, but [that] the consequences of this enormous inequality producing so much misery to the bulk of mankind, legislators cannot invent too many devices for subdividing property. Another means of silently lessening the inequality of property is to exempt all from taxation below a certain point, and to tax the higher portions of property in geometrical progression as they rise. Whenever there is in any country, uncultivated lands and unemployed poor, it is clear that the laws of property have been so far extended as to violate natural right."
- Thomas Jefferson to James Madison
28 Oct. 1785Papers 8:681--82 -
Adam Smith from Wealth of Nations advocating progressive taxation:
"The necessaries of life occasion the great expense of the poor. They find it difficult to get food, and the greater part of their little revenue is spent in getting it. The luxuries and vanities of life occasion the principal expense of the rich, and a magnificent house embellishes and sets off to the best advantage all the other luxuries and vanities which they possess. A tax upon house-rents, therefore, would in general fall heaviest upon the rich; and in this sort of inequality there would not, perhaps, be anything very unreasonable. It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion."
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Well if the Goverment got out of bed with big business, and started taxing the hell out of imports. These business's would have to start making there products here in America again. But that would cut in to there record breaking profits and put Americans back to work. Just a idea.
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☣✠ꀨৠęędꀨ✠☣ wrote:
Too easy and too realistic fora conversation with people that carry water for monied interest. ;)Well if the Goverment got out of bed with big business, and started taxing the hell out of imports. These business's would have to start making there products here in America again. But that would cut in to there record breaking profits and put Americans back to work. Just a idea.
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YOU wrote:
Bottom line is we need at least one Supreme Court republican justice to kick the bucket so God-Willing a non-corporatist gets appointed. The kings and queens of this country have been opening that big business in govt gate so wide that the hinges are soon to permanently break.☣✠ꀨৠęędꀨ✠☣ wrote:
Too easy and too realistic fora conversation with people that carry water for monied interest. ;)Well if the Goverment got out of bed with big business, and started taxing the hell out of imports. These business's would have to start making there products here in America again. But that would cut in to there record breaking profits and put Americans back to work. Just a idea.
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I know this thread has gotten off topic, but I agree this country is Deffinetly headed down the wrong path. I blame most of it on lazy people, lawyers and politicians
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So we all have little control of our lives. Little reason to struggle and strive to make our lives as prosperous as possible. Why should I risk my efforts when you'd like 90% of my capital to go to the state?
Why did I go to school? If I was going to get health care anyway, I should have just kept delivering pizzas. I'll get a guaranteed living wage, have no responsibility other than keeping the manager happy, and I'm free to spend my time off at the beach. Hey, I have kids now. Cool. Imma need some more money now please govmnt!
Unlike some useless assholes here, 👃👈, I got out of that. I took control. I took risks and worked hard.
And you two trolls admit no problem with removing what was to me personally a major motive to success.
Some privileged white folk see no benefit to struggle and reward. Some unprivileged white folk enjoy your tax contributions.
I got on my own feet.
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Brown🎵Note😲 wrote:
So we all have little control of our lives. ✂️Unlike some useless assholes here, 👃👈, I got out of that. I took control. I took risks and worked hard.
And you two trolls admit no problem with removing what was to me personally a major motive to success.
Some privileged white folk see no benefit to struggle and reward. Some unprivileged white folk enjoy your tax contributions.
I got on my own feet.
You have no idea what you're talking about. I've heard you say things like "people in low socioeconomic areas should just move" as though when you are struggling to afford your next meal you can simply rent a uhaul, pay a damage deposit, miss hours at your shitty job....
Honestly, Brown, change your name to Marie Antoinette and be done with it.
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And really, useless asshole? Is that making a compelling case for your argument? I think you're just proving Addi's point that you resort to name calling when you're cornered.... Especially when I would argue that we are all useless assholes.... One way or another.
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I realize lots of people think they are trapped in their lives, unable to progress "cause that sumbitch Reagan in the White House"... I felt that way, too. When lots of people feel that way, you get people that have had good lives feeling sorry for them, as is natural. How to best help is the debate here.
My advice is to do what you can to fix things. You won't regret it. Make major changes. Take risks. Whatever it takes to improve your life. Move. Definitely go to school. Take grants from the government. You may fail, but if you fight hard, you are likely to go far. You will think you can't, but believe me. You can.
I wouldn't have believed it, but it worked for me. A little luck, and a lot of desire, (greed) and ambition will drastically improve your life.
Greed is good. Don't try to eradicate greed. It's a prime mover in a capitalist society.
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Brown🎵Note😲 wrote:
Bluster based on absolutist strawmen which demonize your ideological opponents is your fallback position. You have taken everything I've said to a ridiculous extreme and then attacked that in an attempt to avoid a real discussion. The sad thing is you probably feel like you're convincing.✂️ Little reason to struggle and strive to make our lives as prosperous as possible. Why should I risk my efforts when you'd like 90% of my capital to go to the state?✂️
Unlike some useless assholes here, 👃👈, I got out of that. I took control. I took risks and worked hard.
And you two trolls admit no problem with removing what was to me personally a major motive to success.
Some privileged white folk see no benefit to struggle and reward. Some unprivileged white folk enjoy your tax contributions.
I got on my own feet.
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@Brown:
Whenever you're ready to put your big boy pants back on...I am ready, willing and able to have a civil debate with you on the merits of your central argument: That this country is founded on the principle that collecting federal taxes from it's citizen in order to provide them with a stable government is something they did regrettably and lamented as a 'necessary evil'. In addition I contest the notion that they considered a man's right to be free from such federal taxation or even wealth redistribution, provided that man had equal representation, to be a 'sacred individual liberty'... -
Brown Note I'd like to applaud you for your achievement and making the sacrifices and commitment necessary to get there. I also thank God for a country where that is still possible for those that take personal responsibility and have the desire.
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...Finally, I will be happy to make the argument that a MAJOR founding principle is the notion that a federal government must regulate certain factions among the electorate and that a gross inequality of wealth represents a failure on the part of the federal government to perform it's duties of balancing two specific factions, the haves and the have-nots. Adam Smith wrote about this extensively as did the Federalist papers and the founders in general. As a bonus I will show you how this country was born into massive debt, aggressive taxation and deficit spending. Whiskey Rebellion ring a bell? FY 1790 Inflation adjusted budget numbers don't lie.
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★fnord★ wrote: Bluster based on absolutist strawmen which demonize your ideological opponents is your fallback position. You have taken everything I've said to a ridiculous extreme and then attacked that in an attempt to avoid a real discussion. The sad thing is you probably feel like you're convincing.
Sounds like what you are doing to me, don't it?
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