Belial style thread on cyber bullying etc
Forums › General Discussion › Belial style thread on cyber bullying etc-
shaggly razors wrote:
I've found the tolerance is usually only a one way street and that those preaching tolerance are the least tolerant. Need proof? Disagree with them once.Question for today's tolerant youth . When I was at School fat kids would get name called also gays , racially diverse , people with a wart on their chin whatever , it wasn't meant in any evil way but nowadays everyone seems appalled if someone is called a homo or retarded etc and it seems that most people wouldn't even dream of being hurtful to others . Is that true ?????
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Superyan wrote:
This is an incredibly ignorant viewpoint, seeming to rationalize otherwise despicable behavior. In my opinion, true bullying occurs for one simple reason: the bully responds to their own subconscious and misguided need to inflate their own ego and feel superior, and attempts to obtain satisfaction by trying to make another person feel inferior. Attempting to justify the belittling of another person by suggesting some altruistic motive is specious.I think it fine to bully or name call anyone. As long as its their fault. For example, calling someone fat because they eat too much is acceptable. You'll possible force them to lose weight and even save their life.
But calling some fat when they say a gland problem and they can't help but be fat is wrong. Snip. -
Petnic, I respect your opinion and always like what you have to say, but disagree in principle. A lot analogies presented in this forum are as realistic as "what if there's an alligator in your pocket?" The fact is what's called "bullying" today has value, even this game is a microcosm (and makes a handsome profit off of) for the natural healthy competition/self improvement that results in peer inspired self-correction. Think about a pride of lions: if one is born albino, that outlier is a hindrance to everyone's survival. What happens to that one albino lion? Either killed for the betterment of the group or it's ostracized. May be sad to watch that one animal temporarily suffer, but evolution built "bullying" so the whole pride won't starve due to the albino giving away everyone's position while hunting.
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The word "bully" has morphed into a similar parlance of "racist". An accusation is on par with a conviction in the contemporary court of public opinion. There is bullying, it exists but all criticism doesn't belong under the same umbrella. Some is constructive even if veiled as destructive. If you're picking on a handicapped kid you're an asshole, not a bully. If you're discriminating against one ethnic group based solely on their ethnicity, you're a bigot, notta bully. When I was a kid my big sister used to kick the shit outta me everyday. Naturally I'd complain to my parents and say "dad she just hit me!" His reply was only needed once, "she sure did."
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Haze, any disagreement we have is likely only miscommunication. I was responding to Ryan's post, and consciously used the term, "true bullying" to distinguish that term from criticism. If my doctor tells me I'm overweight, that is constructive criticism from a knowledgable source with compassionate intent and i should pay attention. If some dweeb kid on the playground calls me fat to hurt my feelings, that's bullying and the distinction being primarily the malicious intent. I also don't see malice on the part of the lions you use as an example; this is a preservation instinct. I guess the biggest factor I consider when identifying true bullying is what I perceive the actor's motivation to be.
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@Petnic, thanks for continuing the dialogue to evade miscommunication. True, you were responsibly cognizant to differentiate "true" bullying. But I fear we still may respectfully disagree. IMO, that dweeb kid on the playground calling you fat DOES have inadvertent altruistic intentions. Completely subconscious and only from a primal "one glutton caveman eats too much as a detriment to the rest of our tribe, and slows us down...etc" perspective. Obesity is a major healthcare epidemic, we all pay for everyone's over indulgence. And that problem didn't exist on today's scale in the 50s-60s when "bullying" was limited to a traditional definition.
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No one can hurt your feelings, your doctor is providing medical care and the kid on the playground is doing what all creatures have been natured to do. It may be all esoteric semantics at this point, but I consider that malice you mention to be WAY over stated and hollow at best. It's not intent to injure or deep-seated meanness that makes us correct each other, it may be love? That could be a stretch :)
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Calling someone a bad name is bad, but when you offer someone help and they take it bad, people are way to soft these days. I don't care what people say to me unless it's embarassing and in front of people otherwise I know they're messin around.
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Lest my silence be viewed as acquiesence, let me just say that we can agree to disagree, Haze. Nine times out of ten, the playground dweeb calling me fat is also making fun of another kid in a wheelchair and yet another kid with thick glasses. He or she does so to bolster their own feeling of superiority by pointing out the inferiority of others. And these types of kids generally don't develop reputations which include "compassionate" as a descriptor. I do agree, however, that the label "bully" is overused and often misapplied.
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Superyan wrote:
What a dick!I think it fine to bully or name call anyone. As long as its their fault. For example, calling someone fat because they eat too much is acceptable. You'll possible force them to lose weight and even save their life.
But calling some fat when they say a gland problem and they can't help but be fat is wrong.If we are all accepting of people who are overweight, then are going to think it's ok. By bullying them, you are telling them it's bad to be overweight. It can only be bad if we get too accepting.
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Bullying someone who has glasses is wrong because it's not their fault.
Now, don't get me as the bad guy because personally I don't bully. I don't call other people bad names and insult then ect.
I usually stick up for them.
But it hit me the other day, if we accept overweight people for who they are. Shun other people call them fat. Then we are going to get the problem of them not caring about their weight.
It's well known that the number one cause of losing weight is because they want to look better. If it wasn't for the media and bullys. The levels of obeseity would be even higher.We used to have a kid in my school who was really overweight. He was around 11 years old. But now he's average weight, healthy and plays for the football team.
He said it himself, "I didn't lose weight because it was unhealthy. It was people who tormented me"
His exact words. Did those heartless bullies possibly save his life? -
Alright, like i said, people need to thicken their skin a bit. Name calling only has effects on you if you let it. Relentless physical violence is bullying, amd relentless verbal attacks on someone that doesn't deserve it is bullying. If they ARE fat, because of their eating habits alone, that's their fault. Typically i just leave people like that alone. HOWEVER, if it's a "kid", it's usually the parents fault for the kid being overweight, because the kid can't help being taken out to dinner every day, can he/she?
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People are too afraid to stand up for themselves and others nowadays. If you see someone being bullied and you don't like it, do something about it for yourself. Don't go cry to the teacher like they want you to. Kick that kids ass or get your ass beat for standing up for what you believe in. Even when you loose a fight you will still get some respect just so long as you didn't land any cheap shots like kicking someone on the ground or nut shots.
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Superyan wrote:
That's not right Ryan. If you're overweight you won't die because of that. Obese probably isn't even that bad. Hence why we have a morbidely (sp?) obese category. As I said. It's not their fault they are overweight.snip
I usually stick up for them.
But it hit me the other day, if we accept overweight people for who they are. Shun other people call them fat. Then we are going to get the problem of them not caring about their weight.
It's well known that the number one cause of losing weight is because they want to look better. If it wasn't for the media and bullys. The levels of obeseity would be even higher.We used to have a kid in my school who was really overweight. He was around 11 years old. But now he's average weight, healthy and plays for the football team.
His exact words. Did those heartless bullies possibly save his life?
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⚡ Ⓛⓐⓦⓡⓔⓝⓒⓔ ⚡ wrote:
He actually thanked all the people who bullied him.Superyan wrote:
That's not right Ryan. If you're overweight you won't die because of that. Obese probably isn't even that bad. Hence why we have a morbidely (sp?) obese category. As I said. It's not their fault they are overweight.snip
I usually stick up for them.
But it hit me the other day, if we accept overweight people for who they are. Shun other people call them fat. Then we are going to get the problem of them not caring about their weight.
It's well known that the number one cause of losing weight is because they want to look better. If it wasn't for the media and bullys. The levels of obeseity would be even higher.We used to have a kid in my school who was really overweight. He was around 11 years old. But now he's average weight, healthy
It helped him. -
I think it is dangerous to use a single anecdotal example of one person losing weight because they were made fun of to support the proposition that bullying is somehow acceptable. Because many if not most obese and morbidly obese people suffer from tragically low self-esteem, it is difficult for me to comprehend how making fun of them because of their weight is in any way going to improve their quality of life.
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Ryan, you don't think people in the world don't already know that being overweight is bad? Most, if not all, people don't need bullies to tell them that being overweight is bad. They know that being overweight is bad by themselves. When you're overweight, you look at other people who are skinnier than you and think to yourself "Wow. I am such a loser compared to them. It's no wonder people don't like me or talk to me. I'm just a fat tub of lard who no one will like anyway because of my size". Do you think those people need bullies to motivate them to lose weight. And then what about the overweight or obese people who could commit suicide because they are being bullied even though (in your exact words) "they deserve it"? Are they just too weak? Do they deserve death too becaue they weren't tough or determined enough to lose weight or stand up to bullying?
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petinc wrote:
👏👏👏👏👆👆I think it is dangerous to use a single anecdotal example of one person losing weight because they were made fun of to support the proposition that bullying is somehow acceptable. Because many if not most obese and morbidly obese people suffer from tragically low self-esteem, it is difficult for me to comprehend how making fun of them because of their weight is in any way going to improve their quality of life.
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But that's one person Ryan. People don't all think like him.
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⚡ Ⓛⓐⓦⓡⓔⓝⓒⓔ ⚡ wrote:
Well all them should be like him!But that's one person Ryan. People don't all think like him.
Taking what people say as advice and lose some weight. If they are going to commit suicide over it then they are stupid.I sometimes get bullied and tormented over me being underweight. And I hate how I look in the mirror. I can't gain weight no matter what I eat. But I don't care about other people commenting. Because I don't give a shit about there opinions anymore. I'm not going to commit suicide over it.
Today's generation need a thicker skin. We are all becoming over sensitive and pathetic. -
Superyan wrote:
And this.⚡ Ⓛⓐⓦⓡⓔⓝⓒⓔ ⚡ wrote:
Well all them should be like him!But that's one person Ryan. People don't all think like him.
Taking what people say as advice and lose some weight. If they are going to commit suicide over it then they are stupid.I sometimes get bullied and tormented over me being underweight. And I hate how I look in the mirror. I can't gain weight no matter what I eat. But I don't care about other people commenting. Because I don't give a shit about there opinions anymore. I'm not going to commit suicide over it.
Today's generation need a thicker skin. We are all becoming over sensitive and pathetic. -
I'm skin and bones. I could pig out and not gain a single pound 😒
I was bullied about that among other things.
Bottom line- They're the fools, they mean nothing, get thicker skin and get over it.
I did.
And i'm extremely happy today 😄👍👍 -
⌖🔥Çħίκεɴ🔥⌖ wrote:
That, ladies and gentlemen, is the way to do it.I'm skin and bones. I could pig out and not gain a single pound 😒
I was bullied about that among other things.
Bottom line- They're the fools, they mean nothing, get thicker skin and get over it.
I did.
And i'm extremely happy today 😄👍👍 -
Superyan wrote:
This appears to be a contradiction. If you didn't care about the comments, why use the terms "bullied" and "tormented?".⚡ Ⓛⓐⓦⓡⓔⓝⓒⓔ ⚡ wrote:
Snip.Snip.
I sometimes get bullied and tormented over me being underweight. And I hate how I look in the mirror. I can't gain weight no matter what I eat. But I don't care about other people commenting. Because I don't give a shit about there opinions anymore. [snip.]
Today's generation need a thicker skin. We are all becoming over sensitive and pathetic.And again I bristle at your generalizations. While I agree that as a society we've often taken political correctness to an extreme, we still have not sufficiently eliminated hatred and bigotry. We see examples of unacceptable intolerance in this game daily. We don't demand that racial minorities develop a thicker skin, so why require that of someone who is overweight?
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@petnic, no one thinks you're yielding any points. And I'm not here to change anyone's mind or be "right". Not to beat a deadhorse or become repetitive but: I am terrified of the sequential reasoning you use when saying "the playground bully--fat--wheelchair--thick glasses". That's the same type of bogus argument used to brainwash people into thinking our society is better off with drugs being criminalized. "weedsmoking=heroin use=crime=homicide=terrorism=genocide=apocalypse=etc." You're saying that bully is likely to commit other egregious acts so we should thwart the initial innocuous one.
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And even if they did pick on a kid Ina wheelchair with thick glasses, so what? How many humans have been inspired throughout the years to get contact lenses? Or LASIK? And felt better afterwards? Couldn't it be argued that their lives were improved by "bullying"? What about making fun of a poor kid with ratty hand-me down clothes? Isn't it a normal human response to such treatment to go out and achieve academically, which in turn improves your chances of a rewarding career? Isn't that persons life better than it would have been if their classmates had just accepted their differences (choosen or imposed)?
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petinc wrote:
I didn't mean tormented as in they upset. I meant as in insulted.Superyan wrote:
This appears to be a contradiction. If you didn't care about the comments, why use the terms "bullied" and "tormented?".⚡ Ⓛⓐⓦⓡⓔⓝⓒⓔ ⚡ wrote:
Snip.Snip.
I sometimes get bullied and tormented over me being underweight. And I hate how I look in the mirror. I can't gain weight no matter what I eat. But I don't care about other people commenting. Because I don't give a shit about there opinions anymore. [snip.]
Today's generation need a thicker skin. We are all becoming over sensitive and pathetic.And again I bristle at your generalizations. While I agree that as a society we've
You can't change your race. You can change your weight.
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And ethnic minorites DID have to develop a thick skin! What do think "turn the other cheek" ment? Would we have had the civil rights movement without Rosa Parks bravery? Or the Montgomery bus strike? Those people were beaten, fire hosed and bit by dogs. That's thick skin by definition.
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Another point: if we don't allow our kids to pick on people who are handicapped than a whole generation will lack coping skills to deal with jerks. No matter where you go in life there will always be people who don't like you. And whater you gunna do every time someone gives you guff? Cry to the boss? Call the police? Brown the ground? Fight or flight? Where did you learn those skills? As a child when you saw/experienced bullying. There is already a serious deficiency of personal responsibly, not allowing peer correction will only exacerbate that. What's wrong with "sticks and stones"? Or "that which does not kill me"?
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I also disagree that ALL bullies perpetrate their energy to bolster their self-esteem. Children are so special because they can't look at the world with anything other than "new-eyes". When they see fat people they call them fat, when they see cripple people they call them cripple. But only when those people actually HAVE those characteristics. It is only our nurture that robs them of their honesty. Perhaps there is value in virgin truth? I accept it is difficult to champion an opposition viewpoint, and some of the analogies/verbiage required can be visceral. But hard to hear positions often need the most defending (freedom being the most notable).
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