Capping Capture Range
Forums › Suggestions & Feedback › Capping Capture Range-
★CHUCKDΛVΞ★ wrote:
The thing I would like to comment on is this idea that somehow the players with the largest mobs feel they have earned it more than others and think they have some inherent right to additional advantages. You can not claim that you worked any harder than anyone else just because you started earlier than most. It is possible for someone to have punched as many codes as any of you have thus working at least as hard as you but possibly harder because they may have done it in less time. Despite all that hard work they will never be able to have those invites accepted because many players that are currently in the larger player's mob no longer play. Until the system adjusts for this fact there needs to be some way to keep players who started later than others engaged and motivated to even try to compete.
You stopped punching on purpose for months out of laziness and thought it was funny. Now you cry the blues?
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Change is good if it makes the game better, I haven’t seen anything proposed so far that will accomplish that. Contrary to some big guys complains, or as nick put it, “good feedback”, large mob players have ways to trump snipers as we have seen in the LA battle, those players have efficiently used them. Change for the sake of change is pointless.
The social aspect and the different roles you can play in this game is what makes it interesting to a lot of people. It isn’t anymore only about growing mob, buying henches and Bren Guns to satisfy your megalomaniac tendencies, it is about the ability to be in group of players of various sizes/skills and work together to beat the big guys. Just play within the parameters given in the game. Large mob players can do the exact same thing and expect the same result.
By introducing the existing capture range formula you opened up the game for players of all mob sizes, don’t take that away nick. -
мīм wrote:
Mim wasn't saying anything like this when his crew (Baic) used and uncappable mule account that jumped in 4 different Vs in one night to wipe out 4-500 turf approx a yr ago in Half Moon Bay, CA. Nah. They just all posted thumping their chests like they did something. Just go and look at the data Nick. & their posts'.Change is good if it makes the game better, I haven’t seen anything proposed so far that will accomplish that. Contrary to some big guys complains, or as nick put it, “good feedback”, large mob players have ways to trump snipers as we have seen in the LA battle, those players have efficiently used them. Change for the sake of change is pointless.
The social aspect and the different roles you can play in this game is what makes it interesting to a lot of people
nick. -
I love seeing people get passionate and contributing different ideas.
Each offense should be able to be countered with defense. What's the defense against being sniped by a micro mule?
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Mystery wrote:
Or a variation on JO loot idea. The loot applies to a player like a v for a week. The person has decreased range on you. Example: I apply it to Katie or any sniper & it decreases her range on me for a week but she doesn't get a notification about it. I get a break on her sniping me and I still have to watch out for the other snipers joining the vendetta.Just brainstorming here - what if there was some kind of level element involved with range? At certain levels, a player's range would increase. That would help with those players that just want to be stagnate.
Ok, I can already think of some issues with this suggestion, but maybe it will at least give someone else an idea.
As for JO's loot suggestion, the question is whether a player could get enough of them to actually make a difference.
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I get the feeling that the only way to make everyone happy here would be to implement two or possibly three different calculation for mobs up to 9,999, 10k-25k, and 25,001+....
But that's alot of work and I doubt that would still keep people happy. :/maybe cap the max range so that the bigger mobs don't have an issue being so far ahead the middle
mobs, but the lower mobs can still increase range as they grow. -
ZRAYGO wrote:
Spam and other mules.I love seeing people get passionate and contributing different ideas.
Each offense should be able to be countered with defense. What's the defense against being sniped by a micro mule?
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ZRAYGO wrote:
I love seeing people get passionate and contributing different ideas.
Each offense should be able to be countered with defense. What's the defense against being sniped by a micro mule?
The defense against 75k w/ 24k brens is a V - Requires the use of another player or players.
The defense against getting sniped also requires the use of another player or players... Sending a similar sized player to cap the sniper (who by definition is 40% weaker).
And the V itself is a poor equalizer pound for pound. It is nearly useless for defense as rarely are 3-4 people standing at their phone healing non-stop 24/7. And well timed shoes negate that. So to simply say that you can toss any 4 25k's together and they are on a level playing field with the tops in the game is absurd.
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§ DЯ.WIИDOO § wrote:
But it will be broke soon if we don't fix itIf it is not broke don't fix it.
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☣ 🎸ӈɪƖƖßıƖƖγ🎸☣ wrote:
Spam and other mules.
And in that solution is an issue. It's against the rules, so you're suggestion that I cheat to overcome the disadvantages of a bigger mob is useless to me. While Nick has made fairly clear his stance on mules as long as they don't benefit one player at the expense of others, I (and I believe Nick when he is able to prove it) is against the use of a mule account being used in the manner you suggest. It's pretty clear in the TOS. Whether or not others are employing that tool is not something I would address here however Im not and wont unless Nick determines that what sucks about other similar games is acceptable here as well. I already spoke about spoke about spamming turf. -
Chucky Pancamo wrote:
Huh. Are U actually trying 2 say something of use. Ur noviceness is kinda like how fast U mobbed up trying 2 be something U'll never be wit Ur 20,000 plus hench U bought. KkZRAYGO wrote:
I love seeing people get passionate and contributing different ideas.
Each offense should be able to be countered with defense. What's the defense against being sniped by a micro mule?
The defense against 75k w/ 24k brens is a V - Requires the use of another player or players.
The defense against getting sniped also requires the use of another player or players... .
. It is nearly useless for defense as rarely are 3-4 people standing at their phone healing non-stop 24/ So to simply say that you can toss any 4 25k's together and they are on a level playing field with the tops in the game is absurd.
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Sabasaul wrote:
Oh yeah, don't change range. It sucks having it used against you & isn't perfect but the benefits of it far out weigh the negatives associated with it. You're never going to find a perfect system. Doesn't mean that you can't change things up from time to time though.
My only suggestion would be that any changes addicted be small & subtle at first to see the effects versus yanking the rug out beneath a large portion of the TW population with unknown results. -
I like the idea of having a loot who reduce range on player for a moment!!! Or if you apply the loot to a turf All player have reduced range on this turfs!!!
Plz upgrade the game not change the base!!!
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§ SHЯIИUT § wrote:
Sabasaul wrote:
Oh yeah, don't change range. It sucks having it used against you & isn't perfect but the benefits of it far out weigh the negatives associated with it. You're never going to find a perfect system. Doesn't mean that you can't change things up from time to time though.
My only suggestion would be that any changes addicted be small & subtle at first to see the effects versus yanking the rug out beneath a large portion of the TW population with unknown results. -
Sniping/ranging was a good idea that has, over time, been exploited to the extreme. Most of the players and various crews in this thread are defending it because they are benefiting from their friends exploiting it or found that it was easy to use a second account as their snipe account.
If people tell you there is a defense against it, they aren't being truthful. Begging a random player to cap a few turf to save you a day's worth of hopping away isn't a strategy, especially since they'll pay a price for assisting. Flooding isn't a valid defense either. Jake shared a story earlier of having 1200+ turf capped in 20 hours.
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Vendettas were a great idea that allows smaller players to fight back against larger players that have attacked them. However, for most organized crews, vendettas are being used on a continual basis, and the sole purpose is to have snipers join to do the attacking.
LA is a perfect example of this strategy being used. Larger players toss turf out and smaller players cap it without having to worry about losing their own turf. There is no incentive for them to stop sniping so they use the same strategy, day after day, for months.
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Hacksaw wrote:
Sniping/ranging was a good idea that has, over time, been exploited to the extreme. .
So now sniping is an exploit? I don't see it that way. When I was top mob, I didn't complain about being sniped. Our crew worked together and made more friends who could counter-snipe.
That's how you can win the LA battle. Recruit more folks to your team who can battle the snipers.
Instead of wanting the game mechanics changed in your favor, maybe a solid Public Relations campaign would do the trick. Das and Jake are such warm and loving individuals that with a little effort, you'd have a counter strategy with more recruits to snipe back.
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I have a lot of stories where sniping has been exploited but I'll share one of them here. The rest are almost identical and involve other crews, too, who spent months putting me in continuous vendettas. This could happen to any player of any size and shows how some crews are exploiting the sniping tactic.
The BAIC crew put me in almost continuous vendettas for months and months and took turns chasing me through Northern CA. I hopped hundreds of miles, flooded, and used just about every tactic suggested in this thread and, of course, none of those tactics worked.
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I had no defense against them except to keep hopping. I'm not going to lie and say I didn't enjoy hopping those guys in circles and wasting their time. However, between the legit battle we were having (until uncappable accounts started getting used by them) until they stopped chasing, it was about 13+ months and I only capped a token amount of their turf when they got sloppy placing a snipe turf. At some point, it would have been nice if I had a fair shot to cap them, too. Some of the same guys that joined those vendettas for months are in this thread saying, "if it's not broke, don't fix it".
Nick, thank you for taking the time to tackle this problem. Given the history of how bad it's been exploited, I wouldn't be upset if it was gone forever. However, if it is kept, I think it should be only good enough to be used as a minor strategy instead of as the only tactic some groups use
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Havoc, you and I had conversations about this before and after you reset. You stated before and after you reset about how you didn't like how you had no chance against snipers. I'm paraphrasing there but you told me after you reset that it was one of the factors that soured you on the game and was a factor in your decision to leave.
I said sniping was being used as an exploit because I don't think it was implemented to be an unbeatable tactic to be used constantly. This game has seen other tactics exploited in a similar way and nick has done the right thing by getting rid of them or tweaking them to remove the unfair advantage.
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★COVΛH★ wasn't this your exact quote less than 6 months ago? "I also disagree with how the developers care for their loyal customer base - especially the larger players who have invested the most time and money, which is another reason this was easy for me to do." Also wasn't it addi crying in the forums about snipers in the battle of Dubai? It's human nature to not want something that changes that doesn't benefit them. However the current system has run it's course and a new one is needed. Being a middle mob I'm fine with losing the ability to snipe Groucho and BRV. I have said from the beginning sniping was unfair. I'm happy with a change as long as there is some defensive ability for the guy being targeted
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The defense is teamwork. It's just too bad some of you big lugs aren't very good at making friends. It's only a select few that are complaining. Das, jake, hacksaw. You guys don't have any smallish friends to help you out. Randombloke, shaggly, hardcore aren't in here bitching about being bullied. You know why? Because of benny bad eyes and don bizzle and others. Rangers do double duty as offense against big mobs and defense against other rangers. Make some gosh darn friends!
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Keyser - yes I don't think the dev's support the big mobs like they should but my reset post wasn't about sniping. Hack - at the end of the day I don't really care that much anymore. I've just been on both sides of the coin now and basically what I always see is those that are losing battles to (insert tactic or person here) want changes and those that are winning battles don't. And yes I'm guilty as charged.
If range becomes equal for everyone, it would be a sad day for the majority of the people who play the game. Even when I was getting sniped when I was big hav, at least the people sniping were having fun.
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Hacksaw wrote: ...
They worked! You are the living example of it. You're still there in Northern California right? Truth is, as long as you are mobile and in a decently geocoded area, snipers can't get you.The BAIC crew put me in almost continuous vendettas for months and months and took turns chasing me through Northern CA. I hopped hundreds of miles, flooded, and used just about every tactic suggested in this thread and, of course, none of those tactics worked.
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Nothing surprising in the messages so far. Sounds like a solution that would make everyone happy(er) involves 1) keep sniping ability but significantly reduce the range differential to make sniping an art vs a bmf type weapon approach, 2) inside V's normalize attackers cap distance based on total mob count in the v in a manner such that a mob count equal to or less than 110% of the targets mob count will retain the sniping capability and aggregate mob counts in attacking V's > 110% of target mob count will not get sniping benefit, and 3) maybe a loot item that gives us a variable (surprise) attack range on someone for x hits. Thoughts?
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Oh, and don't forget the pee button. Always strive to make the game more hygienic. You all know what I mean.
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What isn't being said about the big guy side is this:
The big guys best defense against a V is a counter V.
The real (unspoken) request here is that the big guys don't want to be in a V, because it puts them on discount to the rest of the tw world.
The real solution? Remove the defense penalty for those in a V, and let the two groups slug it out between themselves.
Properly designed counter Vs can take out 16 smaller players by targeting each of the 4 V starters already.
Without the penalty, big guys would jump in defensive Vs and their issues would be solved.
They want the range reduced because they do not use the current defensive "protection" afforded by the game: the counter vendetta.
So while the mid to small size guys HAVE to use a V to equal the fire power of the big guys, the big guys don't want to use it for defense -- because of the penalty. Drop that one aspect, the problem goes away and the playing field is leveled without ruining it for the players that didn't start 3 years ago.
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Groucho being the voice of reason, I'm speechless 😱 ...very interesting points that he has brought up. I have to say that I agree with every one.
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〓ＤＥＲＥＬＩＣＴ〓 wrote:
Groucho being the voice of reason, I'm speechless 😱 ...very interesting points that he has brought up. I have to say that I agree with every one.
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One thing to keep in mind is that the range calculation was created at a time when the largest mobs were half their current size. At that time the overall mob to range differential was not that great. It was manageable for everyone. You had to be a little more strategic with your sniping because you had to be half the distance closer than you need to be today. Now a small mobster can sit 2+ miles away and pick away at anyone with little to no reasonable counter attack. Nick is looking for feedback on how to bring this new differential back into a more reasonable differential, while accomodating further mob growth. There are various "counter" options, but not everyone has access to them. A big mob doesn't mean you can afford to flood or have available turf to do so. A solo player may not have friends willing to join a vendetta. Not everyone has unlimited omertas...
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