Could you be wrong
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★ ᏕᎠ ★ wrote:
Only once??I once saw a naked woman.
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If: All men have Y chromosomes.
And: Kevin is a man.
Then: Kevin has Y chromosomes.This is a truth statement, but there's no truth in it. The premis can't be proven.
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RΛINDᎧG wrote:
It was his mom😂becoming blind shortly after★ ᏕᎠ ★ wrote:
Only once??I once saw a naked woman.
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★★BЯOШИИOTΞ★★ wrote:
I like all your viewpoints Brown, but I don't understand exactly. How can it not be proven? Y chromosome is just a symbol and name, but it's an actual physical thing that can be shown repeatedly in all males. If you are trying to say something can't be proven outside the human realm, then it's a pointless statement. We are humans, therefore we have true, provable theories and ideals. I have a dog sitting next to me, I can prove it. If I showed a picture of it to any human on earth they would know what it is.If: All men have Y chromosomes.
And: Kevin is a man.
Then: Kevin has Y chromosomes.This is a truth statement, but there's no truth in it. The premis can't be proven.
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How can it be proven that all males have Y chromosomes? It can't. That's why it's a premise, or an assumption. Logic relies on assumptions that can't be objectively proven. It has to be "induction". Even if all the men we have checked so far are Y-chromosomed, it's always possible that there was, is, or will be a male without a Y chromosome.
Logic proofs are usually in the format of:
Assume A is true.
B has some comparative quality with A.
Therefore logic dictates that B <=> A.These proofs always start with one or more assumptions, either explicit or implied.
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Ok. I see what you are saying. So I might live to be 7000 years old? Avg life expectancy is 1/100 of that but you "never know". Back to the science aspect. If you mix A+B and it yields C, every time, according to your theory, it eventually may yield D?
What if you look at water on a molecular level, H20, it will always be H20, if it's not, then it's not pure water.
If it has a Y chromosome it's male, if not then it's something else, or a derivative of male. -
Assume objective and absolute truth exists.
(If we must assume it, it can't be proven)
"There is no objective and absolute truth." <-implies objective and absolute truth.
Therefore objective and absolute truth exists?
======================I'm sorry, but these silly mind games are really reaching.
Our entire perception of the world around us could be wrong, but we merely assume it isn't and carry on with our lives.
But the claim that one or more of the thousands of human gods defines and embodies absolute truth and logic in the universe is entirely unsubstantiated. Could it be true? Sure. Could it be an internal self delusion in order to compartmentalize chaos? You betcha.
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pugshark wrote:
This is the problem Augustine presents. Just because it has been repeatedly observed, doesn't make it fact. Just because you have woken up every morning of your life so far does not mean you will wake up every morning forever. Observation does not prove things, that's his hashtag there. And....Ok. I see what you are saying. So I might live to be 7000 years old? Avg life expectancy is 1/100 of that but you "never know". Back to the science aspect. If you mix A+B and it yields C, every time, according to your theory, it eventually may yield D?
What if you look at water on a molecular level, H20, it will always be H20, if it's not, then it's not pure water.
If it has a Y chromosome it's male, if not then it's something else, or a derivative of male. -
If I'm guessing correctly, he's making a run at another argument for theism vs. nontheism by proving the existence of God through logic, or through the failure of science to allow for objective truth, which he has faith exists. Oh, it's been done for ages... He is presenting a model which will predict the existence of the magic sky fairy by implying that logic is supernatural, rather than merely a human system to test "truth" (albeit by using assumptions.)
Amirite?
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I know a lot about a few things and a little bit about a lot of things. Im already in my forties and almost every day I still learn something new, even if it's trivial. You just have to be open-minded. Some things I held as truth during my younger years don't make the same sense today and other things I refused to believe or just didn't understand are solid truths for me today. Scholars/scientists swore the world was flat at one point but, today we know this is incorrect. What we believe to be true is molded by many factors- religion, modern science, education, environment...learning and understanding 'simple truths' and the reality of what truly is REAL- morally, socially, physically, spiritually...takes time and in the end individuals will still believe what they have learned and been lead to believe.
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GOOD GRIEF SERIOUSLY.......... Re-read COPPER TOP'S answer don't you guys know anything '42' is an always will be the answer too the question bout anything. Nice too know there's two of us with sense hang in there CT mate 👍🏼
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Objective truth is true whether anyone believes it, perceives it, knows it, either correctly or incorrectly. That is the idea behind the symbol.
Subjective truth depends entirely on the subject. "Pizza is good." It's not universal truth. It's just a perception.
We assume objective truth exists, but we cannot know objective truth without using a subjective perception.
We can never prove objective truth through observation by our subjective minds.
Does objective truth exist? Almost certainly. Is "almost certainly" true in a scientific or logical model? NO.
Is that better?
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I guess I just can't open my mind to that way of thinking. I'll just carry on believing the world I live in is real. 😎
🔄⏳⌛️⏳⌛️⏳⌛️⏳🔄 -
Nah it's still 42 CT n me know the truth bout life, oh an thanks for the fish see ya 👋🏼
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A digital computer is a good example. It's a good attempt to apply an exact binary model to a muddy electrical reality. A computer reads a binary 1 as "about 5 volts". The reality is that exactly 5 volts is so rare as to be practically impossible to achieve for any amount of time. Sometimes it's 3.1 volts. Close enough. What of 2.5 volts?
In our artificial model, 1+1 always equals 10.
In reality, we still need EEC RAM, TCP handshakes and checksums at every level, because sometimes the machine comes back 1+1=1.
We use computers, and they work great billions of times every second. They are vastly more reliable than human thought. But even they are sometimes wrong, even with the simplest truths.
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★★BЯOШИИOTΞ★★ wrote:
☦ΔUGUSTIΠΣ☦ wrote: ...
Logic is merely an abstract symbolism model much like arithmetic. 2+2=4 is true, but there is no such thing as 2+2=4 in reality. They are just symbols and rules that can be applied to reality, just like logic."There is no in reality" is a declaritive
2+2=4 is abstract but is demonstrated as real. Two apples plus two other apples makes 4 apples. Simple.
Would it be real to have a dollar in my pocket and not in my pocket at the same time, no because in reality it cant work.
"A stat
"There are no truths" when CONVERTED to a logic statement is self refuting. Me saying there are no truths is perfectly accurate to any reasonable person, and therefore as true as reality permits.
Not sure what you are talking about. Im talking about one can know anything and if its possible you could be wrong about anything.
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"There is no truth"
What if i disagreed with that statement then does it make it true?
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☦ΔUGUSTIΠΣ☦ wrote:
Anything you "know" is subjective because the mechanism for knowing is within the subject. It is impossible to prove objective truth through observation and testing because all information that is perceived is by definition subjective."There is no truth"
What if i disagreed with that statement then does it make it true?
Even if every human mind on the planet sees the same moon and agrees, that does not guarantee to a certainty that it objectively exists, because all human minds are isolated and subjective.
To answer your original question, yes. Anything and everything you "know" to be true can be wrong.
We function perfectly well in a world of assumptions.
(*everything I just said is subjective™)
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Only thing I know for certain is that I do not know everything.
Cliche, I know, but I think it summarizes my outlook pretty well.
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Ｃｏｐｐｅｒ Ｔｏｐ wrote:
HaThere is only one answer...42
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Let us consider the Buddhist understanding of emptiness from the Gelug tradition in particular. I.E. What constitutes pen? To a human- it is an object to used to write - to a dog it is merely a chewy object. If left on it's own- what is it? Is it truly a pen? The answer is obviously – no. Does it exist? Yes. However, from its own side it has no true identity. This idea extends to all of reality including yourself and your own ego. Think about that.
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💔Śταggεг Łεε🔫 wrote:
This is the perspective I like to keep. Very nice post.Let us consider the Buddhist understanding of emptiness from the Gelug tradition in particular. I.E. What constitutes pen? To a human- it is an object to used to write.......
It kinda means to me that humans create their own subjective reality, and we are so full of ourselves that we believe that it's really an objective reality. We make up Gods to cling to our need for objective meaning. We build societies for the same reason.
I like to imagine being something relatively static, like a rock on a mountain. From the perspective of the rock, the entire human world of drama does not exist. It has no God and no need for one. There is no Wednesday. It just is.
If we could spend more time outside our puny, self important, and utterly insignificant individual realities, we might learn something.
...And then jump off a bridge.
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One thing is certain; that nothing is certain. If this statement is true then it is also false.
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★★BЯOШИИOTΞ★★ wrote:
Thanks- I wish I came up with it. But some guy who sat under a tree for a very long time thought of it first 😉💔Śταggεг Łεε🔫 wrote:
This is the perspective I like to keep. Very nice post.Let us consider the Buddhist understanding of emptiness from the Gelug tradition in particular. I.E. What constitutes pen? To a human- it is an object to used to write.......
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☦ΔUGUSTIΠΣ☦ wrote:
I never know if the shrooms are kicking in since I had a bad trip years ago or did that really happen ? Am I wrong or right , is it true or false ? Aww fuck it ! WHO REALLY CARES , WELL DO YA ? 😂😜Ѵɪɴᴎγ wrote:
How do you know your not on shrooms now? 😜 hahaJust take some shrooms and get it over with.
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I hope I have more ammo than those I disagree with.
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Bait bait bait
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Been watching some Sye Tan Bruggengate and Eric Hovind propaganda lately?
No, there is no solution to hard-solipsism.
Our perception of reality is NOT reality, it's only a perception of it. That's not to say reality doesn't exist, it does and each of us can only perceive varying degrees of it.
Limitations of our senses doesn't however reduce the ability of them to correct their errors. Seeing wavy lines on a hot road looks like water, your eyes are playing tricks on your brain. But as you get closer and reduce the angle of the heat rising, it's also those same eyes that correct the error.
X = X
Because if X was anything else, the equation wouldn't balance. In the same way reality = reality, sometimes our perception of it can vary due to our evolved senses but our perception can still comport with reality.
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For example I can know a triangle has -three straight sides and three angles-. By definition, if it had four sides, or two angles... It would cease to be a triangle. Any other combination would require the definition to be altered to make that shape a triangle. Ipso facto we can know we are right about a shape being a triangle or not.
Presuppositionalism is nothing new, it's simply another transparent argument of assertion and special pleading. It wasn't convincing in previous centuries and it's lame today as well.
It should tell you something about the epistomology if apologia has to retreat to these disingenuous tactics.
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I like an amount of uncertainty and ambiguity in my life, keeps me on my toes. I feel sorry for people who can only see black and white.
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