Defensive Turf Upgrades need to be Fixed
Forums › Suggestions & Feedback › Defensive Turf Upgrades need to be Fixed-
(My first post in Suggestions, please be gentle.)
Defensive Turf Upgrades are so insanely expensive and weak that they are pointless. A Guard gives 5 defense at a cost of $1100/hr!?! A rational player goes and punches two random characters into the "Invite Mobster" box and is way better off. The Math works out even worse the farther up the Def. Turf Upgrades list you go.
To make Def. Turf Upgrades useful and reasonable a few numbers should change. First, and most importantly, the upkeep needs to come way down. Maybe $25-50/hr. Half the upkeep of an AK seems about right. Second, the maximum you can buy needs to come way up. Maybe 500 guards, max per turf.
With a lower upkeep, but higher maxes it would be possible to meaningfully increase the defense of a key turf. -
Seriously, look at that Mall Cop. There's no way he's pulling down $1100/hour as a guard. :)
I feel that the Defensive Turf Upgrades are woefully underused, and by modifying them so they become useful in some circumstances, but not all, it would add some more variety to the game.
A weaker player could save his last turf from a stronger player at a critical moment, or you could hire a pile of guards to help you get through Gas Day, or you're just a little short on mob to survive in that new city. You go buy a few hundred guards for a few days.
As they are now, the Defensive Turf Upgrades are only useful when a 15 mob player is attacking a 9 mob player.Just my two cents.
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This is well known issue and apparently is not on Nick's list of things to fix or at least is on high up on the list. Currently the only so-called solution is to avoid defensive upgrades. This is the same issue with ark/def stat points. I don't think Nick so much as even acknowledges the issue. I've even sent a few feedback tickets regarding this issue with only the generic thank you reply for providing insight on the issue and that they'll look into it.
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I like it👍
This has been an issue for a whole and it should be fixed -
I mention it because it is a game balance issue and could be corrected by fairly minor changes. The upkeep and maxes listed probably made sense when the game was being designed. If Nick believed a popular player's mob might have 100 mobsters in it, then 10 guards would be a significant defense. Now, a few years later, you're not even in the game unless you have thousands of mob.
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🔱ADD🔱UILO🔱 wrote:
I like it👍
This has been an issue for a whole and it should be fixed -
I don't see a needed change. The attack defense ratio is near perfect at the moment and a modifier could prove counter productive
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~B~ wrote:
What are you on about? We're not talking about the total att/def here. Read the freaking OP before you post anything stupid. Herpaderp. This issue needs fixing, still. A lot of people waste A LOT of hourly income on those stupidass upgrades... And paying a guard 1100$/hour? Really? ...I don't see a needed change. The attack defense ratio is near perfect at the moment and a modifier could prove counter productive
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Typoopie wrote:
Stupid is as stupid does.~B~ wrote:
What are you on about? We're not talking about the total att/def here. Read the freaking OP before you post anything stupid. Herpaderp. This issue needs fixing, still. A lot of people waste A LOT of hourly income on those stupidass upgrades... And paying a guard 1100$/hour? Really? ...I don't see a needed change. The attack defense ratio is near perfect at the moment and a modifier could prove counter productive
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That's kind of what I'm talking about, Baron. Def. Turf Upgrades are Always Stupid.
The stupidity peaks at the Machine Gun Nest at $1000/hour/defense point. Tommy Guns (a poor choice for a defensive weapon) give you better value for your upkeep dollar at $62.50/hour/defense point (or $250/hour/defense point improvement over the upkeep free Galesi) or $8/hr/def for the AK. The MG Nest is clearly out of line, even before we consider the Tommy's Attack score.Now, ~B~ is correct in saying that there is a fine balance between attack and defense. I wholeheartedly agree. Guards would be equally unbalanced if they cost $1 upkeep and you could have 20,000 of them on a turf. You'd never see a turf without a few thousand guards. But the situation right now is the other way. Only the greenest newbie in the world is using Defensive Turf Upgrades. They're unbalanced right out of existence.
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So, for example, if we cut the upkeep of every Defensive Upgrade to 1/10th of what it is, and allowed you to buy 10 times as many here's what we'd see:
100x Guards
@ $15K each = $1.5Million
@ $110 upkeep = $11,000/hr
@ 5 def. = +500 defense (for this one turf)
20x Window Bars
@ $20K each = $400K
@ $140 upkeep = $2,800/hr
@ 7 def. = +140 def.
40x Security Camera
@ $50K each = $2 Million
@ $500 upkeep = $20,000/hr
@ 9 def. = +360 def.
20x MG Nest
@ $200K each = $4 Million
@ $1,200 upkeep = $24,000/hr
@ 12 def. = +240 def.ALL OF THEM TOGETHER: $7.9 Million up front cost, $57,000/hr upkeep, +1240 defense for one turf.
As you can see, this wouldn't make Defensive Turf Upgrades ubiquitous; but as it stands now, you can buy all of them for $790K, $57,000/hr upkeep, and +124 defense. The 10x at 1/10th plan probably doesn't go quite far enough.
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Typoopie wrote:
He said increase the number that you can buy to several hundred. That would indeed change the balance. So who should learn to read?~B~ wrote:
What are you on about? We're not talking about the total att/def here. Read the freaking OP before you post anything stupid. Herpaderp. This issue needs fixing, still. A lot of people waste A LOT of hourly income on those stupidass upgrades... And paying a guard 1100$/hour? Really? ...I don't see a needed change. The attack defense ratio is near perfect at the moment and a modifier could prove counter productive
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Better plan is to remove the upgrades.
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Typoopie wrote:
A word from the wise. Do research who's making a post before you insinuate stupidity. I've forgotten more about this game than you'll ever learn mr level 73 with a whole 2k mob. And more Energy than can be refilled in your sleep and enough stamina to take a whole 3 turf if you get all wins. you'll go far.~B~ wrote:
What are you on about? We're not talking about the total att/def here. Read the freaking OP before you post anything stupid. Herpaderp. This issue needs fixing, still. A lot of people waste A LOT of hourly income on those stupidass upgrades... And paying a guard 1100$/hour? Really? ...I don't see a needed change. The attack defense ratio is near perfect at the moment and a modifier could prove counter productive
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👿Belial wrote:
Hi Belial. Thanks for commenting. I don't have any experience at your end of the spectrum in the game, so I appreciate your comments. (And I largely agree.)Better plan is to remove the upgrades.
As they are, they might as well be removed. They only serve to trick the new players into wrecking their feeble economies.
I was working from the (possibly flawed) assumption that they were put there for a reason and were meant to be used. Maybe they were a good deal back in the early days of the game, I don't know. Even with increasing the upgrade limits by 10x, like I did above, a player like me is looking at a 0.3% increase in defense for a single turf. For a player like you, it would be less than 0.1%. Hardly a world changer.But, 100 guards might make a difference to a 1000 mob player. It could be useful in that transitional time between newbie and established player.
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Let me kick around some numbers, just one last time, and then I'll shut up and get back to being the Capo of Bumfuck Oklahoma. :)
Hell, let's go crazy and remove the maximum guard limit, and drop their upkeep to $100. At $15K each, the richest player in the game could buy 113 Million Guards and would have $11.3 Billion/hr upkeep on them, for a total defense bonus of about +565 Million. Spread over his 11,000 turfs that averages out to +51,000 defense per turf. Or he could make 1 turf a tough one, and 11,000 others stay just the same. And now he's broke. And his defense is immobile.
I honestly don't know the answer to this; but is $1Billion/hour upkeep sustainable at the top end of things? I don't know if anyone could keep that up for long. (let alone $11 Billion/hr).
For any normal player, even with removing the maximum limit on the number of guards, you simply couldn't afford to make turfs invincible for forever. The up front cost keeps you from going berserk, and the upkeep drags you down if you try.
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I'm not sure how I feel about the suggestion at this point. However, I'm thrilled to actually read a well-written suggestion. They are few and far-between. It's clear you put some thought into it too. I know people have suggested some tweaks on these in the past, so idk if this is entirely original, but it's also not the 2,000th thread asking for an upgrade all button.
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I like this idea, there are some parts of the game that are massively underused and could be made so much better with the smallest of tweaks!
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No no no! My favorite part of the game is selling the upgrades off turf I just capped from a newbie! I love the free cash, it's like a Christmas bonus, it's like the cherry on top, it's like a double orgasm! Don't get rid of them! But sure, make them cheaper per hour so more fools will use them, just don't lower their sell price!
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Pumpkin Smasher wrote:
This way if somebody maxes out on defence upgrades you make more money.No no no! My favorite part of the game is selling the upgrades off turf I just capped from a newbie! I love the free cash, it's like a Christmas bonus, it's like the cherry on top, it's like a double orgasm! Don't get rid of them! But sure, make them cheaper per hour so more fools will use them, just don't lower their sell price!
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I'm for this as some small mobbed players will equip it instead of making a Vendetta on player with about 100 more mob than them.
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